Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

bbc.co.uk

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

131–140 of 303 posts

Re: Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

#131

Post by jrockway »

mzs wrote: post #37

Minister for Foreign Affairs of Ukraine: https://twitter.com/VPrystaiko/status/1199725757762850819 >IPhones are great products. Seriously, though, @Apple, please, please, stick to high-tech and entertainment. Global politics is not your strong side. #CrimeaIsUkraine

I think it's valuable for Apple to have a mapping product, and having that product invites governments to interfere. I think it's safe to say you're politically neutral when you just do what governments tell you to do.

Two governments not agreeing with each other is a problem for them to work out amongst themselves. Apple just has to maintain a system that allows them to stay in compliance with every government's view at once, and appear to be doing that. (I can type the Hong Kong flag on my iPhone, after all.) That's not politics, that's just self-preservation.

I think what people really want are for corporations to advocate for the political views that they happen to agree with. I was like that up until the whole NBA/China, Apple/China, and Blizzard/China controversy. After being deeply upset for a while, I came to terms with the fact that Fortune 500 companies are not going to be the guiding force towards a better world. They are just going to play basketball or make phones or make computer games. And I'm OK with that. Not thrilled, but I accept it.

Re: Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

#132

Post by brutt »

salimmadjd wrote: post #77

Interesting historical background (not taking sides here). Russia sold Alaska to America to pay for the debt accrued from the Crimean War.[0] It was Nikita Khrushchev who decided to hand over Crimea as territory of Ukraine.[1] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska_Purchase [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1954_transfer_of_Crimea

Ukraine was much larger before Soviet invasion. Crimea and Kuban were removed first, then Crimea granted back in exchange of other territories of same size at North and East of Ukraine, then Crimean is captured again. Never trust Russians.

Re: Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

#133

Post by chc »

saulrh wrote: post #115
adrianmonk wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> google isn't attempting to be an authoritative source for what's really a subjective truth There is an objective truth here, though, that could be shown (if it were allowed). You could show it as disputed. That the dispute exists is an objective truth. The very fact that different states require you to display it differently is proof of that. > presents the "most true" version of reality based on where you're comin…

The question isn't whether or not there's a dispute. The question is whether or not there's a meaningful dispute, and whoever's showing the map still has to make that determination. For example, I still hear people calling it "the war of northern aggression" and calling for the South to rise again. Do we mark everything south of the Mason-Dixon line as being disputed by successionists? No, obviously - that claim is r…

I can see how your point applies in the case of "the war of northern aggression," but not here. If you're showing different things to different people on different sides of the dispute, obviously you've decided there is a meaningful dispute.

Re: Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

#134

Post by brutt »

polski-g wrote: post #110
keymone wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First, you’re conflating language with national identity here, second you’re completely ignoring Crimean tatars that we’re repressed and mass deported from Crimea by Stalin, third you’re not making any sense anyway, because just because major chunk of local population wants to secede - can’t be ground for annexation and starting war, that’s just idiotic.

The Ukrainian/Russian mainland war is a separate issue from Russians living in Crimea wanting to be reunited with their countrymen.

Ukrainians, which are living in RF, are wanting to be reunited with Ukraine, so let's start the war!

Re: Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

#135

Post by MrZongle2 »

xxpor wrote: post #17

Russia only has 144 million people. Phones haven't been commoditized like they have in China with WeChat. They only have 15% market share. Why doesn't Apple tell Russia to shove it where the sun doesn't shine?

Because that requires a level of courage beyond removing a headphone jack.

Re: Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

#137

Post by urda »

brutt wrote: post #129
FpUser wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I expect Russia to continue doing these sorts of things while the world frets. I think the situation with Crimea is unique as there is a set of multiple historical, racial, political etc. etc. factors not present anywhere else. What else could Russia possibly annex without triggering major war and world mayhem?

Alaska maybe. :-/

So Russia would annex a portion of the US and not trigger war or any conflict?

Yeah, no that's highly unlikely.

Re: Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

#138

Post by mzs »

FpUser wrote: post #63
nickpeterson wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia has the power to take a portion of territory and they did. The means through which they did it is considered wrong, but it doesn't change the reality of who controls the area. Maps of political borders are maps of influence, not maps of ideals. I'll also note that thoughts and prayers are not terribly useful in these situations. Force responds to force, nothing else. I expect Russia to continue doing these sor…

I expect Russia to continue doing these sorts of things while the world frets. I think the situation with Crimea is unique as there is a set of multiple historical, racial, political etc. etc. factors not present anywhere else. What else could Russia possibly annex without triggering major war and world mayhem?

the rest of Donbass

Re: Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

#139

Post by brutt »

urda wrote: post #137
brutt wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alaska maybe. :-/

So Russia would annex a portion of the US and not trigger war or any conflict? Yeah, no that's highly unlikely.

People of Alaska will declare independence (with little help of Russian tourists, journalists, and some honest news). This will not trigger a war, right? Independent Democratic People Republic of Alaska will join Russian Federation next day after that. Job is done.

Re: Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

#140

Post by raxxorrax »

derefr wrote: post #16
ir77 wrote: post #4

i'm a big fan of apple products and definitely bought into apple's stance -- but now i'm starting to think it's nothing more than a convenient branding campaign that only works in the USA. all these aspects that apple markets in the USA seem to be completely negotiable anywhere in the world, and i wonder how long before they can also become negotiable in the USA. in the USA, because of fairly well established democra…

Does anyone believe in "change from the inside" any more? From a "change from the inside" perspective, Apple can make more of a positive difference in pushing forward their agenda for countries like Russia, by staying in the Russian market, complying with a few government demands, and thus offering a sub-optimal form of their products/services—but still a form that has nonzero privacy/democracy/etc.-enhancing effects…

I think Apple doesn't really provide anything that I consider democracy enhancing. Few big tech companies do that.

I associate democracy with choice and Apple isn't really too active in that domain. As for the services their products provide, I think that is more in line with all alternatives.

That said, Apple at least seems to have protected user data from government access. Let's see if that holds.

But in practice government would have more difficulties to include backdoors in Android for example and Apple has a single point of failure.

Post reply on HN