Earlier quoted context omitted.
False advertising is normally a crime ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_advertising ) I think (suspect) the trick FB is using is not unlike Uber / Airbnb where they fall just outside regulation. Meaning that sponsored content on FB is just "self-regulated"
Anecdotally, can you remember the last time a big (any?) company got nailed for false advertising? I remember reading marketing material my old company would send out and I knew the application didn't do $the_thing they said it did.
Facebook's only Dutch factchecker quits over political ad exemption
51–60 of 80 posts
Re: Facebook's only Dutch factchecker quits over political ad exemption
#52Earlier quoted context omitted.
In the realm of media, there's a lot of equivocation with the word "fact". I believe in the existence of objective facts in the general sense. But when we're using the term in the context of our current media environment, a lot of "facts" are actually conclusions that contain heaping helpings of opinion, if you really dig into them. There's a lot of telling you what to think and not a lot of bare facts, because who w…
> Here's a common set of "subjective facts": "Policy X will help group Y in manner Z." along with "Politician A voted against X and therefore hates Y." That's just a logical fallacy. By definition a fact can only be objective, otherwise it's simply an opinion.
Which is presented as a fact by the media.....which is consumed by readers and mentally filed under "fact", and subsequently used by subconscious heuristics in future evaluations of reality, producing more "facts" which are transmitted throughout their network of acquaintances, infecting more subconscious heuristics, and round and round we go.
It's interesting that many here at HN expect the general public to up their epistemological game, when all of us here have the same infected heuristics as them (if to a lesser degree), and routinely behave in similar ways.
The question on my mind lately is: how might this situation be improved, first here at HN, and then maybe later throughout the rest of society? We've got a bunch of bright minds here, it might be interesting if we acknowledged this problem and set our collective minds to finding a solution.
Re: Facebook's only Dutch factchecker quits over political ad exemption
#53For everyone doing all the hand-wringing about Facebook, doesn't existing media (newspapers, TV, cable, etc) already NOT "fact check" ads run on their networks?
False advertising is normally a crime ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_advertising ) I think (suspect) the trick FB is using is not unlike Uber / Airbnb where they fall just outside regulation. Meaning that sponsored content on FB is just "self-regulated"
Re: Facebook's only Dutch factchecker quits over political ad exemption
#54Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Not really. You don’t think people call things ‘fake news’ just because they disagree with it? Calling things fake news is a common type of fake news these days!
Thats fine, but those people are not under the fact checking standard : https://ifcncodeofprinciples.poynter.org/ There are methods and proceedures in place to fact check. I'm really surprised people think facts are opinion based.
Re: Facebook's only Dutch factchecker quits over political ad exemption
#55Earlier quoted context omitted.
Can you provide some facts that would be subjective?
In the realm of media, there's a lot of equivocation with the word "fact". I believe in the existence of objective facts in the general sense. But when we're using the term in the context of our current media environment, a lot of "facts" are actually conclusions that contain heaping helpings of opinion, if you really dig into them. There's a lot of telling you what to think and not a lot of bare facts, because who w…
While true that conditional statements about the future ("X will help") is not falsifiable, it is still a well formed if-then statement. The statement must be either true or false even though we can't derive a proof one way or the other. I disagree that we have to just throw our hands up and accept belief in unfalsifiable "subjective facts". I can easily fix your statement. Watch me:
"Relevant organization W projects that policy X will help group Y in manner Z."
Now your belief in "X helps Y in manner Z" is no longer blind but derived from trust in organization W. If you don't want to trust W you can dig deeper into their methods and data. There is no link in the chain that can only be filled in subjectively.
>"Politician A voted against X" isn't necessarily as factual as it may seem since it's a common tactic to have X bundled in with a whole bunch of other things, and you don't know whether A voted against X, or voted against boondoggle B buried in the bill, or if X was in fact the only thing the politician agreed with in the entire bill and was forced to vote against it because everything ..."
If you looked closely you would see "therefore politician A hates Y" is a false conclusion from a true premise. Not to victim blame here, but if true facts are leading someone to false conclusions then that's on them for being bad at critical reasoning. The facts aren't subjective. The flaw is in the wetware. Human brains have exploitable bugs. We call them "fallacies". The hotfix was released in the education system. It hasn't reached everyone yet.
If the public can't be trusted to evaluate facts presented to them then the very premise of democracy is flawed anyway.
Re: Facebook's only Dutch factchecker quits over political ad exemption
#56I just can't get my head around why political speech is permitted to be false.. Have Facebook ever actually given any solid reasons for this decision?
Voters decide what is good or bad political speech (at least in democracies). It's already bad enough with concentrated corporate media and giant web corporations, we don't need to have another unelected group of "fact checkers" mess with this any further. Let anyone, politician or not, make any political speech and, again, voters will ultimately decide.
Re: Facebook's only Dutch factchecker quits over political ad exemption
#57Earlier quoted context omitted.
Can you provide some facts that would be subjective?
Let’s ignore all the complexity surrounding facts and just assume facts are obtainable and 100% objective. With 100% objective facts, media outlets still wield a huge amount of power through cherry-picking and spinning. Example: You live in a group A (party, country, etc.) echo chamber where every day you’re bombarded with news on evil thing X group B just did, which is a fact. What they don’t tell you is that group…
Re: Facebook's only Dutch factchecker quits over political ad exemption
#58Fact-checking is misleading, because it makes some people believe that facts are completely objective and you can verify or disprove them without any bias. In the end, most fact-checking outlets just repeat propaganda of the political parties they align with.
Can you provide some facts that would be subjective?
"Poverty causes crime"
"Women are neurotic"
"IPv6 is required to be implemented ASAP"
All of these are absolute facts To some people. And absolute falsities to others.
Re: Facebook's only Dutch factchecker quits over political ad exemption
#59Fact-checking is misleading, because it makes some people believe that facts are completely objective and you can verify or disprove them without any bias. In the end, most fact-checking outlets just repeat propaganda of the political parties they align with.
Can you provide some facts that would be subjective?
The meaning of "babies", "killed" and "late-term abortion" (or even if that term has any meaning) is completely subjective.
Re: Facebook's only Dutch factchecker quits over political ad exemption
#60Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Here's a common set of "subjective facts": "Policy X will help group Y in manner Z." along with "Politician A voted against X and therefore hates Y." That's just a logical fallacy. By definition a fact can only be objective, otherwise it's simply an opinion.
> That's just a logical fallacy. Which is presented as a fact by the media.....which is consumed by readers and mentally filed under "fact", and subsequently used by subconscious heuristics in future evaluations of reality, producing more "facts" which are transmitted throughout their network of acquaintances, infecting more subconscious heuristics, and round and round we go. It's interesting that many here at HN exp…
> The question on my mind lately is: how might this situation be improved, first here at HN
I would first suggest not applying such a broad brush stroke to all players in "the media". It's a false-equivalence to say the least.