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Facebook's only Dutch factchecker quits over political ad exemption

theguardian.com

41–50 of 80 posts

Re: Facebook's only Dutch factchecker quits over political ad exemption

#41
post #12

I just can't get my head around why political speech is permitted to be false.. Have Facebook ever actually given any solid reasons for this decision?

Where would you draw the line? Mostly true? Some true? Mostly false? 100% false? What if there are facts surface later and this changes the truthiness?

Re: Facebook's only Dutch factchecker quits over political ad exemption

#42

For everyone doing all the hand-wringing about Facebook, doesn't existing media (newspapers, TV, cable, etc) already NOT "fact check" ads run on their networks?

Traditional media reviews the ads they run. Most probably don't fact check, but no reputable newspaper would run anything that doesn't at least pass a sniff test.

Re: Facebook's only Dutch factchecker quits over political ad exemption

#43

For everyone doing all the hand-wringing about Facebook, doesn't existing media (newspapers, TV, cable, etc) already NOT "fact check" ads run on their networks?

Usually you have organizations like advertising standard authorities, who will absolutely crack down on untruthful ads.

The ones in Australia and in the UK come to mind and have serious bite in confronting offenders.

Add to that that ads in newspapers are clearly identifiable as ads, while this is much more intermingled in social media.

Re: Facebook's only Dutch factchecker quits over political ad exemption

#44
post #26
post #12

I just can't get my head around why political speech is permitted to be false.. Have Facebook ever actually given any solid reasons for this decision?

Could you please be specific about which part of the reasoning given in the article you think is not solid? The company insists that it does not want to be in the position of judging what is true and false, with its head of communications, Nick Clegg, saying that it was not an “appropriate role for us to referee political debates and prevent a politician’s speech from reaching its audience and being subject to public…

This is, in my opinion, no solid reasoning. It's more like the weazeling out, which is so very typical for Facebook.

The reasoning does not stand up for ads, which are very obvious, proofable lies and which they still refuse to withdraw.

Re: Facebook's only Dutch factchecker quits over political ad exemption

#45
post #22

>>> The online newspaper Nu.nl had been Facebook’s only factchecking partner in the Netherlands since Leiden University dropped out of the programme last year. The website had sole responsibility for marking Facebook and Instagram news content for Dutch users as being false or misleading, in order to help power the social network’s tools that suppress distribution of misinformation. Imagine the years of training and…

Before you voice an opinion it helps if you have the facts. What they did was write background stories on facebook news items to see if they could find corroborating news articles. Basically what every sane human should do when reading anything online. As for the statement that we are blessed: thanks.

I was there a few weeks ago, and there is a lot for you to feel blessed about. (Though I might also agree with Houellebecq's recent quip that "Holland isn't a country, it's a business venture.")

Factchecking is a gatekeeper method. The adversarial method for challenging incorrect facts is far better than the gatekeeper method, unless you have gatekeepers of the very highest quality. And Facebook has no mechanism for getting gatekeepers for more than middling quality. The abuses in their factchecking mechanism in the English media have been notorious.

Re: Facebook's only Dutch factchecker quits over political ad exemption

#46

For everyone doing all the hand-wringing about Facebook, doesn't existing media (newspapers, TV, cable, etc) already NOT "fact check" ads run on their networks?

False advertising is normally a crime (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_advertising)

I think (suspect) the trick FB is using is not unlike Uber / Airbnb where they fall just outside regulation. Meaning that sponsored content on FB is just "self-regulated"

Re: Facebook's only Dutch factchecker quits over political ad exemption

#47
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you please be specific about which part of the reasoning given in the article you think is not solid? The company insists that it does not want to be in the position of judging what is true and false, with its head of communications, Nick Clegg, saying that it was not an “appropriate role for us to referee political debates and prevent a politician’s speech from reaching its audience and being subject to public…

This is, in my opinion, no solid reasoning. It's more like the weazeling out, which is so very typical for Facebook. The reasoning does not stand up for ads, which are very obvious, proofable lies and which they still refuse to withdraw.

In the general case, judging obvious vs non-obvious isn't much easier than judging true vs false.

Re: Facebook's only Dutch factchecker quits over political ad exemption

#48
post #12

I just can't get my head around why political speech is permitted to be false.. Have Facebook ever actually given any solid reasons for this decision?

Because truth and falsehood are not so clear cut. Many scientific studies are needed to even begin to understand an issue, and even if we can say things like 'climate change is happening' with the weight of massive studies backing up, saying things like 'policy X will fix climate change' will be lucky to have a single study backing it.

Take even something that you would think no one would disagree with, some of the most non-controversial standards which we use to build laws from, and you will find many of those 'facts' are actual opinions and have edge cases that people aren't aware of.

Try this one: Lowering the drinking age is harmful to minors.

Is it? We know alcohol in general is harmful to the one consuming it. But would a lower drinking age result in less binge drinking and thus be more healthy on average? We see this a lot with prohibition, where if we ban something harmful but the ban itself causes more harm. How can you say, as a fact, that the ban will or won't make things better or worse?

So while we can easily scoff at the idea that "Hillary is controlled by aliens." banning falsehoods is far more troublesome than just wiping out the obvious falsehoods. And in some cases, even the obvious falsehoods aren't false.

Re: Facebook's only Dutch factchecker quits over political ad exemption

#49

For everyone doing all the hand-wringing about Facebook, doesn't existing media (newspapers, TV, cable, etc) already NOT "fact check" ads run on their networks?

False advertising is normally a crime ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_advertising ) I think (suspect) the trick FB is using is not unlike Uber / Airbnb where they fall just outside regulation. Meaning that sponsored content on FB is just "self-regulated"

Anecdotally, can you remember the last time a big (any?) company got nailed for false advertising? I remember reading marketing material my old company would send out and I knew the application didn't do $the_thing they said it did.

Re: Facebook's only Dutch factchecker quits over political ad exemption

#50
post #38
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well why fact check anything then ? If you're going to do it as a company, I don't know why you have two standards..

That's a good point. I think Facebook made a mistake by doing this. They should only vet ads for legality in the target jurisdiction (to some extent, false advertising is a crime, so they might need some minimum fact checking there). Generally I think those companies are making a huge mistake if they slightly deviate from absolute neutrality in the area of politics/geopolitics. Any deviation is seen as taking sides b…

Doing nothing is an action. Inaction is not what neutrality means.

It is not neutral to let foreign powers interfere with elections (in any country, whether it be the US in a Russian one or Russia in a US one).

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