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Russian whistleblower was assassinated after uncovering $200B scandal (2018)

thedailybeast.com

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Re: Russian whistleblower was assassinated after uncovering $200B scandal (2018)

#41

Post by Jwarder »

9c8675a8 wrote: post #14

All tax money in Russia and elsewhere is stolen and therefore dirty and corrupt to begin with anyway. Try not paying taxes and you'll get jailed -- and if you refuse this you'll get gunned down. I think doing anything you can to avoid paying taxes without getting yourself into trouble is a moral obligation.

Ha. I've been thinking about these sorts of problems and I'm leaning towards the idea that while governments are legitimate (groups of people pooling resources to achieve communal goals with some degree of compromise) most citizens are not legitimate (for lack of a better word). I was born in the US so I get all these rights, benefits, and obligations with no choice. From that viewpoint are immigrants the only "true" citizens of a nation because they actively choose to be a part of it?

Re: Russian whistleblower was assassinated after uncovering $200B scandal (2018)

#42

Post by creaghpatr »

codyb wrote: post #38
powdertreason85 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Found murdered with gunshot wound to the back. Police claimed it was robbery yet his wallet, cellphone, creditcards, and laptop weren't taken. > The only evidence that he was involved in something, that I'm aware of, is a cryptic comment from Asange. Well, that and basic commonsense. If it wasn't Seth Rich who leaked the e-mails, who was it? It's far more plausible that it was Seth Rich than the russia boogeyman thro…

US Intelligence as well as several independent cyber security firms concluded the DNC e-mails were leaked after an attack by Guccifer 2.0. This was followed up by several indictments issued by Special Counsel Robert Mueller which would have to be tried in a federal courtroom were they ever to occur. That seems to be a fair bit of evidence. Is everything a conspiracy now? It’s quite clear Russia meddled in the 2016 el…

US intelligence never examined the physical server, the cyber security firm was a client of the DNC, intel community simply accepted the findings without verification.

Re: Russian whistleblower was assassinated after uncovering $200B scandal (2018)

#44

Post by vorpalhex »

adrr wrote: post #18
mola wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why humanity invented the Hero. We recognize that irrational selflessness can be extremely beneficial for society. The more heroes we have, the less corrupt the system, the stakes of corruption would be lower and the price of heroism should decrease, thus society at large and these selfless heros will probably benefit together.

There is significant and maybe a majority of people who have flexible morality. CA-50 re-elected a congressmen who was under indicted for corruption and theft of campaign funds. A CIA whistleblower is in hiding and career military officer in under protection for reporting or testifying about corruption at the white house. Hero only exists if a significant majority of society has capability to distinguish right from w…

> Hero only exists if a significant majority of society has capability to distinguish right from wrong

Galileo comes to mind as someone persecuted during their time but later considered a hero. There's no shortage of other examples.

Re: Russian whistleblower was assassinated after uncovering $200B scandal (2018)

#46

Post by mcphage »

powdertreason85 wrote: post #29
ALittleLight wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, this guy was killed after exposing a massive conspiracy and even the official story is that he was assassinated - albeit by small time random crooks. Conversely, Seth Rich hasn't been shown to be involved in anything that might motivate someone to have him killed. The only evidence that he was involved in something, that I'm aware of, is a cryptic comment from Asange. Surely it's good to be skeptical, but being…

Found murdered with gunshot wound to the back. Police claimed it was robbery yet his wallet, cellphone, creditcards, and laptop weren't taken. > The only evidence that he was involved in something, that I'm aware of, is a cryptic comment from Asange. Well, that and basic commonsense. If it wasn't Seth Rich who leaked the e-mails, who was it? It's far more plausible that it was Seth Rich than the russia boogeyman thro…

> It's far more plausible that it was Seth Rich than the russia boogeyman thrown out by the media (without evidence, mind you).

Well, plus the giant multi-year investigation into it by multiple intelligence agencies which all came to the same conclusion. They even published some reports, maybe you read one of them? Also indicted a lot of people.

Re: Russian whistleblower was assassinated after uncovering $200B scandal (2018)

#47

Post by greggman2 »

wayoutthere wrote: post #33
bilekas wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But with this mentality corruption will just go unchallenged. Its a huge risk, but the rewards for removing such a big chunk of corruption is huge. So I guess you're right, it is more of a mindset thing.

It's no different than a peasant (or even a lesser lord) challenging a king in the feudal era. You spoke out against the king, you lost your head. Billionaires are our kings. Jeff Bezos' wealth is 3 times the GDP of North Kora, which has a standing army of over a million people. They are more wealthy than a number of independent states. Do you think he couldn't fund and equip 100,000 mercenaries if his monopoly were…

If Jeff Bezos was to commit murder tomorrow and be caught I suspect the police would chase him, catch him, throw him in jail, he'd make bail and it would turn into a scene like OJ. I don't expect he'd be able to raise an army to break him out or defend is home. He might be able to flee the country but even that might be hard even with all his money.

If he had covertly planned ahead and already had his mercenary army in place maybe. (though maybe he'll have the secret code for all the drones....)

Re: Russian whistleblower was assassinated after uncovering $200B scandal (2018)

#48

Post by learc83 »

wayoutthere wrote: post #33
bilekas wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But with this mentality corruption will just go unchallenged. Its a huge risk, but the rewards for removing such a big chunk of corruption is huge. So I guess you're right, it is more of a mindset thing.

It's no different than a peasant (or even a lesser lord) challenging a king in the feudal era. You spoke out against the king, you lost your head. Billionaires are our kings. Jeff Bezos' wealth is 3 times the GDP of North Kora, which has a standing army of over a million people. They are more wealthy than a number of independent states. Do you think he couldn't fund and equip 100,000 mercenaries if his monopoly were…

No Jeff Bezos doesn't have the liquid assets to recruit and equip 100,000 mercenaries. Not even close. We've seen billionaires go to jail before btw (without raising a private army to protect them).

The comparison of his total net worth to the North Korea's yearly GDP and army size is irrelevant.

If he even tried to raise an army to resist the will of the US government, they would seize his assets so fast his head would spin.

That's not to say money doesn't buy political influence, but it's a much subtler kind of influence.

Re: Russian whistleblower was assassinated after uncovering $200B scandal (2018)

#49

Post by chance_state »

tclancy wrote: post #45
mensetmanusman wrote: post #43

The U.S. is not blameless in supporting money laundering through real estate: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/03/how-kle...

How is that relevant here and not just meaningless whataboutism?

Is there a name for the phenomenon (eg. Poe's Law) where people leave comments on random world politics topics that basically consist of "but America..."?

You can count on it on every single negative geopolitical story on most sites. Sad to see it on HN.

Re: Russian whistleblower was assassinated after uncovering $200B scandal (2018)

#50

Post by petermcneeley »

Jwarder wrote: post #41
9c8675a8 wrote: post #14

All tax money in Russia and elsewhere is stolen and therefore dirty and corrupt to begin with anyway. Try not paying taxes and you'll get jailed -- and if you refuse this you'll get gunned down. I think doing anything you can to avoid paying taxes without getting yourself into trouble is a moral obligation.

Ha. I've been thinking about these sorts of problems and I'm leaning towards the idea that while governments are legitimate (groups of people pooling resources to achieve communal goals with some degree of compromise) most citizens are not legitimate (for lack of a better word). I was born in the US so I get all these rights, benefits, and obligations with no choice. From that viewpoint are immigrants the only "true"…

I really like where your going with this but if you go a bit deeper you will see that those born in the US have the same choice as those born outside.
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