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The Real Class War

americanaffairsjournal.org

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381–390 of 634 posts

Re: The Real Class War

#381

Post by AnimalMuppet »

pjc50 wrote: post #17

Well this pulls no punches: > Conservative donor gatherings are somehow even more pathetic. Most of the attendees are there only because they are not smart enough to recognize that the Democratic Party offers a far more effective reputation laundering service. The rest are probably too senile to know where they are at all. There is often a special irony to these events: an uninspiring ideologue is usually on hand to…

The last several screenfuls all all a very bitter rant. I find it hard to take seriously something written like this.

Re: The Real Class War

#382

Post by specialist »

tvanantwerp wrote: post #159

I've spent my career working in public policy circles, and this rings true to me. > At most, working-class voters can cast their ballots for an “un­acceptable” candidate, but they can exercise no influence on policy formation or agency personnel, much less on governance areas that have been transferred to technocratic bodies. > Unlike the work­ing class, the professional managerial class is still capable of, and re­q…

Look harder.

My friends have worked on marriage, marijuana, human trafficking, consumer protection, etc, etc.

(My own efforts weren't as potent. At the time. Though I'd like to think my cohort moved the needle on election integrity issues. All the "radical" stuff we pushed 10 years ago is now received wisdom.)

In fact, I'd argue that most progress is bottom up, happening locally.

I highly recommend Camp Wellstone training for activists. Of course there's many others. On the left.

The political right has no shortage of resources for their activists.

Re: The Real Class War

#383

Post by malandrew »

rehasu wrote: post #367
motohagiography wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To +1 one this: Having spent a great deal of time consulting to government, in addition to working in media, but with a deep background in tech, the managerial class of people making policy have a revolving door to the universities, which are seized by faddish ideas as often as the elected representatives. Many of these policy people actually come to hate technologists because they find their more chauvinistic plans…

My impression in recent years is that the middle class has real value in almost any society we had until now. They are the glue that brings stability to any organization, they are what keeps to energetic lower layer people from gaining power from crazy ideas, and they are the first to get blamed when a crazy idea from the top management layer fails. Do you see differences between that statement and your experience? A…

> My impression in recent years is that the middle class has real value in almost any society we had until now.

The middle class really isn't any less powerful today. Near as I can tell what happened isn't that the middle class became less powerful, but that journalists in particular no longer find themselves in the upper middle class so they spread the perception that the middle class has lost its power because they themselves feel like they have lost power, especially economic power.

I suspect that society is most likely perceived as most stable when those with megaphones and that buy ink by the barrel feel most stable.

https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2016/06/th...

Re: The Real Class War

#384

Post by SimbaOnSteroids »

anongraddebt wrote: post #371
MithrilTuxedo wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One would assume that with advances in technology such cycles will eventually be broken.

How many times have we said something similar about the promises of technological advancement, and yet the panacea never actualizes?

How many other technological advancements are trying to automate the one thing that makes humans human.

Re: The Real Class War

#385

Post by FussyZeus »

snowwrestler wrote: post #265
tvanantwerp wrote: post #159

I've spent my career working in public policy circles, and this rings true to me. > At most, working-class voters can cast their ballots for an “un­acceptable” candidate, but they can exercise no influence on policy formation or agency personnel, much less on governance areas that have been transferred to technocratic bodies. > Unlike the work­ing class, the professional managerial class is still capable of, and re­q…

Have you never heard of the labor movement? The grassroots activism by working class people that forced the federal government to develop an entire arm of federal law, with its own Cabinet-level agency, to protect them from the professional managerial class? How have you spent your career working in public policy circles and come away with so little understanding of what grassroots activism is, and the impact it has…

The working class has been satiated since the times of such strikes and accomplishments with tax breaks, easy access to credit and a booming economic growth rate that was long-term unsustainable. Keeping in mind both parties are at fault in that trade: the politicians for being willing to ply the electorate with unsustainable economic policies to ensure votes, and the voters for being so shortsighted and naive to think infinite growth was possible. Now those chickens are coming home to roost and most of those people most responsible will probably be dead and dust before the debts are paid.

I'm not one of those people who thinks the planet is actually going to kill us off. We're a clever bunch, we'll survive. That said our world in 100 years or so will look significantly different, and I don't think in any of the ways people wanted.

Re: The Real Class War

#386

Post by marktangotango »

blurbleblurble wrote: post #269
snowwrestler wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you never heard of the labor movement? The grassroots activism by working class people that forced the federal government to develop an entire arm of federal law, with its own Cabinet-level agency, to protect them from the professional managerial class? How have you spent your career working in public policy circles and come away with so little understanding of what grassroots activism is, and the impact it has…

For the same reason that Hillary Clinton got nominated in 2016. Because too many politicians are completely out of touch with the movements, conditions and perspectives of working people. Where I live, grassroots organizers are doing all the hard work. I'm not talking about protesters. I'm talking about people who are building and connecting organically, who are facilitating workshops and popular education sessions,…

> This country would be a hell hole without the hard work

This country is not a hell hole? That's a tough argument to make for a lot of people!

Re: The Real Class War

#387

Post by noelsusman »

blurbleblurble wrote: post #269
snowwrestler wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you never heard of the labor movement? The grassroots activism by working class people that forced the federal government to develop an entire arm of federal law, with its own Cabinet-level agency, to protect them from the professional managerial class? How have you spent your career working in public policy circles and come away with so little understanding of what grassroots activism is, and the impact it has…

For the same reason that Hillary Clinton got nominated in 2016. Because too many politicians are completely out of touch with the movements, conditions and perspectives of working people. Where I live, grassroots organizers are doing all the hard work. I'm not talking about protesters. I'm talking about people who are building and connecting organically, who are facilitating workshops and popular education sessions,…

Hillary won working class voters in the 2016 primary by a comfortable margin. +28 with non-college-educated voters and +13 with voters under $50,000 in income.

Re: The Real Class War

#388

Post by oneepic »

excursionist wrote: post #166

> But the Valley has never been particularly fertile for the salaried professionals and “engineers” hired by these companies, who even now generally make less than their counterparts on Wall Street or in Big Law. Kindergarten playroom office spaces and other exag­gerated perks often serve to distract employees from this harsh reali­ty. lol

That line seems pretty dramatic, to say the least. Quite a bit of narrativizing is being done here.

Re: The Real Class War

#389

Post by wbronitsky »

shevek_ wrote: post #262

From 2018-2019, we saw teachers protests and strikes lead to massive concessions being gained in 7/9 states they occurred in, most of which were red states. The working class has a considerable amount of power when wielded correctly. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018%E2%80%9319_education_work... Eric Blanc's Red State Revolt is another great source on this https://www.versobooks.com/books/2955-red-state-revolt

I'm not saying this argument is incorrect, but I think it is complicated by the fact that teachers are public employees.

The article mostly touches on private industry and the economics reaped within that sphere. Your argument is salient, but there is probably room for both the argument in TFA and this one.

Re: The Real Class War

#390

Post by anongraddebt »

_bxg1 wrote: post #120
frockington1 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a very elitist and condescending ran. Assuming everyone who disagrees with you is being manipulated is not going to bring anyone to your side and will further distance people who disagree.

It's not "everyone who disagrees with me", it's one very specific point: public intervention - be it healthcare, infrastructure, job training for people in dying industries, workers' rights, etc. - is the only way to stave off the natural gravity of economic stratification. But I've seen more Fox News than most people here probably have, I listened to hours of conservative talk radio in the car with my mom over the y…

A lot of what you say is true, but also applies to the likes of MSNBC and (even) CNN. Raving, frothing at the mouth, 'journalism'.

I grew up in a commumity much like the family life you described. Rush Limbaugh, Fox News, etc etc 24/7. There were some non-ideological types who - while staunchly conservative - actually thought through their beliefs. They were the exception.

I left and attended an elite school, where... almost the exact inverse of that existed. Sure, it was more 'educated' types in that in general they had attended better schools, had more degrees, etc. than the people from the rural area I grew up in. However, most of them were startingly dogmatic and could not reason through their beliefs to provide a proper justificatory ground. Just the same tired slogans and phrases recited by academics and students who all already agreed with one another.

To quote David Foster Wallace, "human beings are generally pathetic." You will find many people on either side of the divide who just go with the flow.

And sadly this honestly is just a given with human nature. We should encourage higher levels of critical reasoning and the like in politics, but at the end of the day people are going to choose their communities.

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