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RISC-V Foundation moving to Switzerland over trade curb fears

reuters.com

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Re: RISC-V Foundation moving to Switzerland over trade curb fears

#241

Post by punnerud »

kens wrote: post #237
Abishek_Muthian wrote: post #12

I appreciate and welcome this move by RISC-V foundation. With semiconductor industry being used as a major soft power, countries which don't have such power betting on RISC-V[1], it's wise to move to a neutral country. My only gripe being, there aren't many neutral countries which can stand up to powerful militarized nations. Edit: The reason, I mentioned lack of military power of neutral countries is because of the…

Has anyone else noticed HN comment threads becoming more, uh, unfocused lately? Here, an article on technology standards and avoiding trade restrictions on RISC-V has led to pages of comments on nuclear war with Switzerland.

I feel that is the case every November, December before Christmas and June. Times where a lot of bigger (work) projects are due and people are tired.

Re: RISC-V Foundation moving to Switzerland over trade curb fears

#242

Post by javajosh »

h0l0cube wrote: post #117
javajosh wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>...without the expense of having to provide human rights and freedoms If you assume that raising a small population of creative, technical problem-solvers requires this expense, then China has successfully outsourced that role to 'us' (meaning Western democracies, esp. the US), just as we've outsourced our manufacturing workforce to them. I think a trade-war is justified in retaliation for rampant systematic IP thef…

I'm not sure how you've come to this belief that there isn't a population of creative, technical problem-solvers in China. I'm very much certain of the opposite. China is a large nation with a super-size talent pool drawn from a monster labour force, with a strong cultural heritage and long history of state provided education opportunities. The US isn't some sort of exception here. If anything, it wastes much of it's…

That is not my belief and I didn't say it was. Stealing IP is not incompatible with also creating it.

That said the US has been collecting brilliant expats from around the world for ~70 years, including from China, so I might be forgiven for expecting our science and technology output to be superior. At least until we stop attracting great minds.

But here's the thing, we aren't in a position to steal IP because we don't make anything, so they don't send us the plans. If they did, we might be stealing too, but I hope not.

Re: RISC-V Foundation moving to Switzerland over trade curb fears

#243

Post by aidenn0 »

kazagistar wrote: post #89
knolax wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think he's referring to UBI.

UBI also isn't money for votes, its money regardless of votes. I can vote for UBI and lose more in taxes then I gain, and I can vote against it and still benefit. That sounds like about as non corrupt as it gets.

I'm still not sure where I stand on UBI, but it's interesting that I've seen some economic liberals that are huge fans, other economic liberals that dismiss it as people "voting themselves money" and I've seen socialists that are huge fans of it and socialists that dismiss it as "an attempt by Capital to bribe the proletariat." Meanwhile most moderates I know seem to think it a pipe dream.

Re: RISC-V Foundation moving to Switzerland over trade curb fears

#244

Post by DiogenesKynikos »

rayiner wrote: post #187
DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The United States invaded Iraq and killed hundreds of thousands of Iraqis on a thin pretext. It toppled the government of Libya, leading to years of turmoil and the return of literal slavery. It supported Sunni extremists in Syria that helped tear that country apart. It ran a global kidnapping and torture operation for years. It conducts drone assassinations around the world. When I hear Americans talking about the U…

The intervention in Libya was due to a security council resolution proposed by the UK and France. It was run as a joint NATO effort.

I'm not saying that France out the UK have clean hands either, but there was critical US involvement. NATO went far beyond the UN mandate to protect civilians, however, becoming the de facto rebel air force.

NATO tried several times to assassinate Gaddafi, killing his family members instead. For example, one airstrike in Tripoli killed a son and three grandchildren of his.[1] Of course, they did eventually bomb his caravan, leaving him to be brutally murdered on the side of the road. None of this was authorized by the UN. Western special forces were also not authorized to operate in Libya, but they did anyways.

Anyways, years after this wonderful exercise in protecting civilians, the country is still in a state of civil war, torn between different warlords. People forget that as bad as Gaddafi was, Libya used to have the highest living standard in Africa. Now, it's a nightmare.

1. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-libya/libyas-gaddafi-surv...

Re: RISC-V Foundation moving to Switzerland over trade curb fears

#245

Post by DiogenesKynikos »

riversflow wrote: post #210
DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The United States invaded Iraq and killed hundreds of thousands of Iraqis on a thin pretext. It toppled the government of Libya, leading to years of turmoil and the return of literal slavery. It supported Sunni extremists in Syria that helped tear that country apart. It ran a global kidnapping and torture operation for years. It conducts drone assassinations around the world. When I hear Americans talking about the U…

Look, I'm didn't say that the US is a beacon of morality, what I'm saying is that China is significantly less moral than the US, and I gave a direct apples to apples example. Pointing out that the US participated in the Iraq war is not really on topic at all, because the US is the sole flag-bearer of free trade on the high seas in our global economic system--no one else has the navy to do it and nobody else has to ma…

Saying the US "participated in the Iraq war" is putting it rather euphemistically. The US government lied and engineered the Iraq War, which was an illegal war of aggression. It led to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people. ISIS probably would never have come into existence without the Iraq war.

> The US hasn't kidnapped and tortured any consulate employees recently, which China just did.

Perhaps not (though it does have a recent history of kidnapping and torturing people on a global scale), but the US is busy blasting away pine nut farmers in Afghanistan.[1]

1. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-afghanistan-attack-drones...

Re: RISC-V Foundation moving to Switzerland over trade curb fears

#246

Post by gmanley »

wayoutthere wrote: post #200
riversflow wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are such things as universal human rights, and China is absolute violating of them. >You literally just can't. Right, which is why we let Hitler exterminate the Jews.

> There are such things as universal human rights, and China is absolute violation of them. You mean the ones that the US routinely violates for "terrorists" and "criminals"? China uses the exact same rhetoric for the people whose rights it violates. The situation with the Uyghurs mirrors a lot of the tactics used in the 70s by American police against black Americans under the guise of the "war on drugs" (hint: our p…

I don't understand. Are citizens of countries that do bad things not allowed to point out issues in other countries as well? I'm more than aware of, at least some of, the bad things the US has done and in some cases is still doing. I get mad and voice my dissatisfaction with those issues as well. I don't think any of that prevents me from doing the same for other issues globally. I can think what the US is doing is horrible and think what China is doing is bad as well. Your first two paragraphs are basically just saying "US does it too".

Re: RISC-V Foundation moving to Switzerland over trade curb fears

#247

Post by wang_li »

Abishek_Muthian wrote: post #218
stjohnswarts wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think anyone is going to invade Switzerland for a RISC cpu design

None needs to, it's opensource. They're moving to protect its freedom.

Since it’s open source they don’t need to move the foundation to protect the design. They’re moving to protect their ability to collect dues from companies tightly controlled by governments that commit human rights abuses on a massive scale.

Re: RISC-V Foundation moving to Switzerland over trade curb fears

#248

Post by Dylan16807 »

onepointsixC wrote: post #164
NohatCoder wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, and relocating away from that regime is a good first step in cutting ties.

Imagine being this excited to stick it to the US so a totalitarian country could have access to a US-funded technology for use of genocide.

It's open source, everyone has access no matter what.

Re: RISC-V Foundation moving to Switzerland over trade curb fears

#249

Post by leereeves »

atoav wrote: post #231
leereeves wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With both Warren and Sanders proposing to tax rich people at levels not seen outside Communist countries, it's hard to believe the left doesn't sympathize with the Soviets, at least pre-Stalin Soviets.

I am afraid I can’t follow your logic there. Taxing rich people the same as everybody else (instead of paying them money) doesn’t make you a communist. Even taxing rich people more doesn’t make you a communist. Eisenhowers tax bracket in 1951 was 91% (!) above 400 k$. I am not an American, but I’d be rather surprised if Eisenhower turned out to be a Soviet all along. These kinds of progressive tax brackets are pretty…

> These kinds of progressive tax brackets are pretty normal in most democratic nations

What's the highest wealth tax you know of in a NATO nation? Is it near 8%?

Sanders has openly said that he doesn't think billionaires should exist, and has a history of supporting communists, so I don't think I'm stretching very hard here.

Re: RISC-V Foundation moving to Switzerland over trade curb fears

#250

Post by coliveira »

DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #166
jacobwilliamroy wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think standards development should be open, so Switzerland is the ideal host in any geopolitical situation. Otherwise, I do think the American economy could benefit from restrictions on imports. It's called import substitution economics, which worked very well for american steel back in the late 19th century. Not sure if it'll work again though. Things are different now.

Tariffs and other protectionary measures make much more sense for developing countries than for developed countries. Developing countries want to protect their fledgling industries from much stronger competition from the developed world. This hurts consumers in developing countries, who are forced to buy substandard domestic products at higher prices. Developed countries want as free of trade as possible, so that the…

Excellent explanation. I wish people, especially politicians, had a clear understanding of this.
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