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The Real Class War

americanaffairsjournal.org

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131–140 of 634 posts

Re: The Real Class War

#131

Post by dade_ »

mdorazio wrote: post #9
clairity wrote: post #3

> "What is remarkable about today’s oligarchy is not its ruthlessness but its pettiness and purposelessness." yup. the 0.1% is really good at hoarding capital, but to what end? none, apparently. a startlingly coherent summary and critique of the many socioeconomic ills that we tend to discuss opportunistically here. we non-0.1-percenters need to hone in on undoing the systemic changes since the 70's that has led to t…

Honestly, this is what gets me. Say what you will about the man, but few people complain that Elon Musk is a billionaire because clearly he's repeatedly investing his wealth in actually trying to advance humanity in meaningful ways. Similar story with Bill Gates and his foundation. But wtf is the average billionaire (of which there are thousands) or hundred-millionaire (of which there are tens of thousands) doing wit…

Those that inherit it, ruthlessly protect it or try to. After all, they have no idea how to create wealth or even manage it. They have a family office for that: https://qz.com/1412024/how-to-invest-like-a-billionaire-tips...

Re: The Real Class War

#132

Post by giggles_giggles »

danaris wrote: post #109
simonh wrote: post #105

This is all driven by globalisation, and don't get me wrong I'm a globalist, but this is just a fact. First manual labour in manufacturing was outsourced abroad, then higher tier tech jobs in software and product engineering. Now big firms from former third world countries are muscling in on markets at every level of the economy, creating competition at every level of business. You can't add hundreds of millions of C…

> The result has been a pause in income growth in the western world. We've benefited from cheap imported goods, but lost out in domestic growth. Except that's not true. There's been growth; it's just all gone to the very wealthy in the West.

> There's been growth; it's just all gone to the very wealthy in the West.

Wrong. According to ourworldindata.org the world population in extreme poverty fell by half since 1990. I'm sure there are other sources to match this data as well.

But that doesn't fit your narrative.

Re: The Real Class War

#133

Post by theohofpleasure »

_carl_jung wrote: post #76
BuckRogers wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How do you decide which work is valuable and which work isn’t? By viewing the profits generated. As profits are nothing more than unpaid wages.

I invent (at the cost of $500) a programming tool that improves your output by 50%. This enables you to earn $5000 more per year than previously. You purchase that software for $1000, providing me a profit of $500. Who's wages are unpaid?

It's a company which makes the profit. If you started a company and sold the tool for $500 and the company paid you $500 then there is no more profit for the company. If the company paid you $250, only then can they claim to have made $250 profit.

Hence, profits are nothing more than unpaid wages.

Re: The Real Class War

#134

Post by raxxorrax »

nl wrote: post #39
neonate wrote: post #29

I read it, though not closely, and am still unclear what is the "real class war". The educated-but-alienated professional elite against the oligarchs? I'm just guessing. Also, he kind of loses it in the final paragraphs, which weakened my impression of the rest.

>I read it, though not closely, and am still unclear what is the "real class war" The real class war is between the 0.1 percent and (at most) the 10 percent—or, more precisely, between elites primarily dependent on capital gains and those primarily dependent on profes­sional labor. It's pretty clearly defined. It's the group that makes their money primarily from investment returns vs those who make their money primar…

That would bring us back to the proletariat again.

Although today these workers do indeed have production capital, which is expressed through their knowledge and education in many cases.

Re: The Real Class War

#135

Post by Despegar »

intended wrote: post #129
simonh wrote: post #105

This is all driven by globalisation, and don't get me wrong I'm a globalist, but this is just a fact. First manual labour in manufacturing was outsourced abroad, then higher tier tech jobs in software and product engineering. Now big firms from former third world countries are muscling in on markets at every level of the economy, creating competition at every level of business. You can't add hundreds of millions of C…

That’s incorrect - the global pie has grown bigger. Inches and markers exist which never existed before. All those new workers are consumers for goods and services from America. America soy beans are famously bought in China, as are American bonds. Economically- if you get cheaper goods, you do more with the same income, meaning your quality of life goes up. The issue is not the growth of China- the issue is the dist…

The pie may have grown, but aside from labor in the Global South, the people who have captured the gains from that growth have been the capital class in the developed nations (i.e not blue collar workers or the professional class). And no, getting some of your compensation in stock options doesn't make you apart of the capital class, unless you can stop working.

Re: The Real Class War

#136

Post by dangerface »

neonate wrote: post #33
_bxg1 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's radical energy there, but here's the clincher: it will never turn into anything productive because the Republican propaganda machine has so effectively manipulated the working class into continuing to think that public services are their enemy . They will rant and holler about communism until the billionaires have milked them of their very last dollar, and then blame that on communism too. The very policies t…

Isn't there something patronizing, even patrician, about saying "the propaganda machine has so effectively manipulated the working class"? Why aren't their views as legit as yours or mine? There seems to me a great assumption in saying that they are "manipulated". Who isn't? This is the idea of false consciousness ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_consciousness ), and it has always seemed questionable to me. Who…

> Why should their priorities be any different than they are?

Because we are all humans with the same priority, to carry on the species / tribe.

> Who are we to say that someone else's way of relating to their own life and their own concerns is wrong?

Humans don't consider their way of life they act on instinct (of self / human preservation) first and only consider their life upon reflection if at all.

Personally I find it difficult setting aside time to consider my life and even more difficult to reflect and deal with the fact that i'm usually wrong, at first.

I know the average person doesn't bother doing this, maybe they are just way smarter than me and don't need to but more likely they have the same default as me and are wrong and just haven't considered.

Re: The Real Class War

#137

Post by dwaltrip »

giggles_giggles wrote: post #132
danaris wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The result has been a pause in income growth in the western world. We've benefited from cheap imported goods, but lost out in domestic growth. Except that's not true. There's been growth; it's just all gone to the very wealthy in the West.

> There's been growth; it's just all gone to the very wealthy in the West. Wrong. According to ourworldindata.org the world population in extreme poverty fell by half since 1990. I'm sure there are other sources to match this data as well. But that doesn't fit your narrative.

What you quoted is talking specifically about growth in the west and who benefitted.

Re: The Real Class War

#138

Post by raxxorrax »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #22
chii wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or they are just quietly building businesses, rather than make flashy headlines. You don't need to "advance humanity" - just creating a service or product to satisfy since other human's needs is a good enough goal.

Advancing humanity should be a requirement for access to that kind of money. It's a hugely privileged position to be in, and the idea that it comes with exactly zero responsibility to Rest of World is nonsensical.

Advancing humanity can be very terrible but I am sure most people would create that certificate for themselves. Especially if you are high on money and cocaine.

Re: The Real Class War

#139

Post by kingkawn »

hnuser77 wrote: post #128
kingkawn wrote: post #5

I disagree that the working class is not going to radicalize itself. They too are out here on the internet, talking to each other and culturally evolving at an unprecedented rate, like everyone else. For the first time they have the power to publish and think in public uncoupled from professional barrier. Better believe it’s being used, and that they will assert their awareness.

I think the author's take would be that the working class can radicalize all they want, but it probably won't change anything without the support of a significant part of the 10%-0.1%. I wish he had gone into detail on why he thinks the upper-middle class is required to effect political change. Is it because they have just enough capital? Or maybe they are closer to and more familiar with institutional power?

Because his class consciousness is with them so he sees their participation as pivotal to anything taking root across the whole of society because they are how he relates to the whole of society

Re: The Real Class War

#140

Post by macintux »

giggles_giggles wrote: post #132
danaris wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The result has been a pause in income growth in the western world. We've benefited from cheap imported goods, but lost out in domestic growth. Except that's not true. There's been growth; it's just all gone to the very wealthy in the West.

> There's been growth; it's just all gone to the very wealthy in the West. Wrong. According to ourworldindata.org the world population in extreme poverty fell by half since 1990. I'm sure there are other sources to match this data as well. But that doesn't fit your narrative.

You misinterpreted the grammar.

"In the West, it's just all gone to the very wealthy" is the intent. Not "All the growth in the world has gone to the wealthy in the West."

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