Earlier quoted context omitted.
Living.
Are people on minimum wage dying?
Yes, statistically, more than others. For stupid preventable reasons. Because of no insurance, worse food, difficult transportation options, crime.
Job loss predictions over rising minimum wages haven't come true
341–350 of 381 posts
Re: Job loss predictions over rising minimum wages haven't come true
#342How many of the people arguing for keeping the minimum wage unchanged were arguing that in good faith? In general, increasing pay into people at the bottom of the ladder has a much bigger economic effect than the opposite. Reasonable increases in the minimum wage, particularly ones that track inflation and cost of living are not going to harm the economy. As many have pointed out, the minimum wage in many places has…
Adjusting it at all assumes that supply and demand do not apply to the labor market.
Why isn't there a minimum wage for computer engineers?
Re: Job loss predictions over rising minimum wages haven't come true
#343Earlier quoted context omitted.
That’s nuts, I lived a luxurious life in college on less than that. It’s certainly enough money for a room and food and a car and savings left over in nearly every US municipality.
2500/month - 400 taxes - 600 rent (at least there's a listing for something at that price in San Jose, whether it's legit or not I don't know...) - 0 car (Happy Birthday, college student) - 100 gas - 125 groceries (warning: not luxurious!) - 440 health care - 100 electricity - 60 water - 16 netflix premium (you said luxurious) - 13 amazon prime - 46 gym membership - 30 internet - 160 clothing - 125 car insurance - 0…
If someone is spending $130/month dating while at the bottom rung of the income ladder, They're Doing It Wrong. If they can't talk someone out of their clothes after a $10 coffee date it's probably best for everyone that their genitals not come near another human being's until they've leveled-up their ability to intelligently utilize their available resources.
And a GYM MEMBERSHIP?!?! On minimum wage?!?! Prison workouts/calisthenics/military-style functional fitness. That stuff costs $0, and can be learned from free YT vids.
Re: Job loss predictions over rising minimum wages haven't come true
#344Earlier quoted context omitted.
Living.
It's not meant to provide a living. Companies don't exist to provide jobs, jobs are a byproduct of the business, not its reason to exist. Minimum wage jobs are people with no skills who are easily replaceable, usually teenagers learning to enter the workforce.
Maybe in 1950. Today, it can be any retired person, highly educated or not, who can't find a better job.
Re: Job loss predictions over rising minimum wages haven't come true
#345Earlier quoted context omitted.
Who is to say what is the best wage? Should the government decide what people's wages should be? Should the government come to you and tell you specifically that your salary is not what you got from the exchange of labor with your employer and change it unilaterally? Minimum wage debates in economics aside, there is a core ideological issue where some people really do like the idea of controlling other people, and so…
> Who is to say what is the best wage? Should the government decide what people's wages should be? I don't think the government should dictate exactly what a person's wage should be but setting a minimum makes perfect sense because otherwise businesses pay slave wages and use taxpayer money to subsidize their labor expenses. As a taxpayer I don't want to my taxes spent on food stamps for employees working 40 hours a…
> minimum makes perfect sense because otherwise businesses pay slave wages
Why is being unemplyed at 30U$S better than employed at 3U$D? It is clear that there are non-salary benefits to work that arent covered in MW. Thats why internships exist. Places that serve housing or food, like colleges, shelters, kitchens etc could afford to hire more people.
> As a taxpayer I don't want to my taxes spent on food stamps for employees working 40 hours a week just because some greedy company wants to put money that should go to those workers into their own pockets.
That is a complaint to the government. A private business has no control over subsidy policy. When you say you dont want to pay for those subsidies, why would businesses want to do it for you? You are merely transferring a burden from yourself unto another.
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Another important thing: MW is taxed significantly. Why doesn't the gov raise actual wages by reducing the tax burden? MW in california is taxed at 20%!
Re: Job loss predictions over rising minimum wages haven't come true
#346Earlier quoted context omitted.
Who is to say what is the best wage? Should the government decide what people's wages should be? Should the government come to you and tell you specifically that your salary is not what you got from the exchange of labor with your employer and change it unilaterally? Minimum wage debates in economics aside, there is a core ideological issue where some people really do like the idea of controlling other people, and so…
>>Who is to say what is the best wage? This isn't a complicated question but it's strange you're proposing it like it's unanswerable. We have plenty of models that help us understand price. I imagine you could easily establish a basket of goods which would be used as a proxy for a 'fair' market rate. Regardless, the means do not dictate the ends. If a minimum wages is deemed an effective way to increase economic grow…
Its not a complicated one, it's an ideological one. I do not believe in the use of coercion to set wages. It just happens to also tend to be the best course of action in pure econ terms.
> Additionally, the Government isn't deciding what 'Your' salary is. They are setting a floor for the labor market. Without a floor for wages the economy would devolve into feudalism. Employers are a cartel and they would use size to suppress wages at the benefit of shareholder profits.
If you want to do X and someone tells you you cant, they are telling you what to do. But if gov is so concerned about those in the lower end of the tax bracket, why do they tax them at 20%?
Re: Job loss predictions over rising minimum wages haven't come true
#347Earlier quoted context omitted.
Those are definitely skills many at the bottom lack. They weren't part of my basic education, but I'm sure we went to different schools. Regardless, people without those skills exist. Us HN people never meet them, and have a hard time imagining their lives, but they're still out there. I completely agree that our educational system is fucked and needs to be fixed. I don't see how that would help the people who alread…
I am very, very familiar with how the poor and poverty stricken live considering I've been there and have been very public about my and my family's experience. Which is precisely why I find framing arguments around removing minimum wage as some benefit to the poor to be rather disgusting, because it does absolutely nothing to solve the problem. A job which can't pay shit isn't going to help you survive when the rent…
I honestly can't understand how people think earning $5/h is worse than earning $0/h.
I'm not being sarcastic. It's such a bizarre mental contortion.
Re: Job loss predictions over rising minimum wages haven't come true
#348Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Some businesses cannot be profitable and therefore will not exist at certain minimum wages, though. It's also worth noting that some businesses probably can't be profitable without chattel slavery, though it's hard to find examples since the practice has been illegal for so long. > The US minimum wage is a big part of why manufacturing jobs have moved out of the US, for instance. No. I'd say the bigger part of the…
> It's also worth noting that some businesses probably can't be profitable without chattel slavery, though it's hard to find examples since the practice has been illegal for so long. The difference between slavery and wages is that one of them is enforced by violence. The other is an offer, that may be taken or left. That difference is supremely important, and makes those things completely incomparable. > No. I'd say…
> The difference between slavery and wages is that one of them is enforced by violence. The other is an offer, that may be taken or left. That difference is supremely important, and makes those things completely incomparable.
Sorry, they're not "completely incomparable." You just selectively pulled out some context for slavery to make that claim, but left the wage-work situation in an idealized context-free zone. The context for wage-work can be starvation or death by exposure, if the offer isn't taken. The fact that there's some side that can be reckoned to have made some nominal choice is not sufficient to legitimize it, just as similar choice is not sufficient to legitimize someone voluntarily selling themselves into chattel slavery. Also, contracts and property rights are enforced by violence, and I highly doubt you think they're illegitimate, so being "enforced by violence" doesn't seem to be that significant of a differentiator here.
If we're supposed to wring our hands about the poor businesses that are unprofitable due to the minimum wage, I see no reason why we should not do so over ones that are unprofitable for other reasons, like slavery, child-labor restrictions, and worker safety laws.
> I mean, I think we're saying the same thing. Those free trade agreements are what enabled the labor to be off-shored, because the labor is cheaper. I don't think we disagree here.
No we're not. Minimum wage laws are minimally relevant to offshoring because the wages in countries were the work moved are simply unlivable in the US.
> No they wouldn't. Nobody takes a job at a wage that causes them to starve and die of exposure. Therefore such jobs do not exist. You take a job so as to avoid starving and dying of exposure. If you are going to starve and die anyway, you might as well not be working.
Exactly. There's no way Americans could compete for jobs on price with Bangladeshis. So in a free trade regime, jobs are going to move to Bangladesh regardless of any American minimum wage laws. By itself, free trade is necessary and sufficient for extensive offshoring of American jobs.
Re: Job loss predictions over rising minimum wages haven't come true
#349Earlier quoted context omitted.
Are people on minimum wage dying?
Yes, statistically, more than others. For stupid preventable reasons. Because of no insurance, worse food, difficult transportation options, crime.
If that's your cause, what do you think about reducing the tax rate on wages below 30k? They pay about 20%.
Re: Job loss predictions over rising minimum wages haven't come true
#350The story of Rome’s fall is both complicated and relatively straightforward yet it eerily resembles America:
The state became too big and chaotic;
the influence of money and private interests corrupted public institutions;
and social and economic inequalities became so large that citizens lost faith in the system altogether and gradually fell into the arms of tyrants and demagogues.
If all of that sounds familiar, well, that’s because the parallels to our current political moment are striking. Edward Watts, a historian at the University of California San Diego, has just published a new book titled Mortal Republic that carefully lays out what went wrong in ancient Rome — and how the lessons of its decline might help save fledgling republics like the United States today.