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Job loss predictions over rising minimum wages haven't come true

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Re: Job loss predictions over rising minimum wages haven't come true

#321

Post by dang »

marcusverus wrote: post #278
Ericson2314 wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you measure it in calories or other form of nutrition, did it triple? If you define poverty not by an absolute standard of living but the poverty trap (the range where the rest of society trivially exploits you, intentionally or not, and you cannot advance as they do), does it triple?

In what way are the poor exploited?

Please don't take HN threads into generic ideological arguments. They're off topic here.

https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Job loss predictions over rising minimum wages haven't come true

#322

Post by gwright »

krnlpnc wrote: post #320
gwright wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So by your logic an employer would be required to pay every employee a wage that would allow them to support a family even if they don't have a family to support?

Yes. I’m talking about the minimum wage for any employee. Consider the fact that it is illegal in the US to ask an interviewee their age, marital status, and family status, among other things.

Any employee? Part time job for a teenager?

Re: Job loss predictions over rising minimum wages haven't come true

#323

Post by varjag »

microcolonel wrote: post #303
varjag wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. You can't say legally employ a cleaner for less than their occupation minimum wage. They don't have to negotiate for it or be in a union, either. https://www.arbeidstilsynet.no/en/working-conditions/pay-and...

Collective bargaining agreements are private agreements, aren't they? I meant that the legislature and regulators me not decide the wages; and your reference seems to directly indicate that.

I linked to the state regulator website that enforces minimum wages (among other occupational regulations).

Re: Job loss predictions over rising minimum wages haven't come true

#324

Post by slavik81 »

CoffeeDregs wrote: post #315
BurningFrog wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In general, increasing pay into people at the bottom of the ladder The bottom of the ladder is the unemployed, who make $0/h. The good faith argument for no minimum wage is that those people would have a much bigger chance to find jobs and build job skills.

> The bottom of the ladder is the unemployed, who make $0/h. If government programs are included, the unemployed definitely don't "make" $0/hour. As is often pointed out, taxpayers are effectively funding the underpayment of workers Walmart, McDonalds, etc because of government subsidies. I don't have a dog in this hunt but the issue is much too complicated by government action to say unequivocally that the unemploye…

I made $0/hour when I was unemployed at the start of my career. Never had a job before, and nobody was willing to give me a chance, so I got nothing.

I'm thankful that I will never be in that situation again. It was awful.

Re: Job loss predictions over rising minimum wages haven't come true

#325

Post by CoffeeDregs »

slavik81 wrote: post #324
CoffeeDregs wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The bottom of the ladder is the unemployed, who make $0/h. If government programs are included, the unemployed definitely don't "make" $0/hour. As is often pointed out, taxpayers are effectively funding the underpayment of workers Walmart, McDonalds, etc because of government subsidies. I don't have a dog in this hunt but the issue is much too complicated by government action to say unequivocally that the unemploye…

I made $0/hour when I was unemployed at the start of my career. Never had a job before, and nobody was willing to give me a chance, so I got nothing. I'm thankful that I will never be in that situation again. It was awful.

In the US? You should have been able to get heavily subsidized health insurance (which is a hassle), unemployment, etc. Still crappy but it's not $0.

But that's exactly my point: it's very difficult to discuss this when policy is such a swirl.

Re: Job loss predictions over rising minimum wages haven't come true

#326

Post by [deleted] »

CoffeeDregs wrote: post #325
slavik81 wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I made $0/hour when I was unemployed at the start of my career. Never had a job before, and nobody was willing to give me a chance, so I got nothing. I'm thankful that I will never be in that situation again. It was awful.

In the US? You should have been able to get heavily subsidized health insurance (which is a hassle), unemployment, etc. Still crappy but it's not $0. But that's exactly my point: it's very difficult to discuss this when policy is such a swirl.

[deleted]

Re: Job loss predictions over rising minimum wages haven't come true

#327

Post by sand_castles »

slavik81 wrote: post #324
CoffeeDregs wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The bottom of the ladder is the unemployed, who make $0/h. If government programs are included, the unemployed definitely don't "make" $0/hour. As is often pointed out, taxpayers are effectively funding the underpayment of workers Walmart, McDonalds, etc because of government subsidies. I don't have a dog in this hunt but the issue is much too complicated by government action to say unequivocally that the unemploye…

I made $0/hour when I was unemployed at the start of my career. Never had a job before, and nobody was willing to give me a chance, so I got nothing. I'm thankful that I will never be in that situation again. It was awful.

How did you shelter and feed yourself at $0/hour ?

Somebody or something was providing you liquidity.

Re: Job loss predictions over rising minimum wages haven't come true

#328

Post by fzeroracer »

BurningFrog wrote: post #312
fzeroracer wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those aren't job skills. Those are all things you learn as part of your basic education. So again, what actual skills do you learn on the job? If your argument is that we should remove the minimum wage to help people who can't make it through the educational system, I think the actual argument is that our educational system is fucked and needs to be fixed. Even then, most of the unemployed have those skills you've me…

Those are definitely skills many at the bottom lack. They weren't part of my basic education, but I'm sure we went to different schools. Regardless, people without those skills exist. Us HN people never meet them, and have a hard time imagining their lives, but they're still out there. I completely agree that our educational system is fucked and needs to be fixed. I don't see how that would help the people who alread…

I am very, very familiar with how the poor and poverty stricken live considering I've been there and have been very public about my and my family's experience.

Which is precisely why I find framing arguments around removing minimum wage as some benefit to the poor to be rather disgusting, because it does absolutely nothing to solve the problem.

A job which can't pay shit isn't going to help you survive when the rent is due and you're earning $5 or less an hour. Even moreso if you're disabled and companies further take advantage of your desperation to work you into the ground until you break.

This isn't about helping the poor, it's about allowing companies to fleece them harder.

Re: Job loss predictions over rising minimum wages haven't come true

#329

Post by slavik81 »

CoffeeDregs wrote: post #325
slavik81 wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I made $0/hour when I was unemployed at the start of my career. Never had a job before, and nobody was willing to give me a chance, so I got nothing. I'm thankful that I will never be in that situation again. It was awful.

In the US? You should have been able to get heavily subsidized health insurance (which is a hassle), unemployment, etc. Still crappy but it's not $0. But that's exactly my point: it's very difficult to discuss this when policy is such a swirl.

Canada, but it's the same in the States. Unemployment is for people who have lost a job. I would not have qualified.

What stuck with me was that everything required that I already had a job. Maybe it was the economy at the time, but nobody wanted to hire someone without work experience. When I discovered that even unemployment required I have work experience, it felt like I was living in Catch-22.

For that reason, I support the government acting as an employer of last resort. Everyone should be guaranteed a job if they're willing to work.

Re: Job loss predictions over rising minimum wages haven't come true

#330

Post by n0rbwah »

sand_castles wrote: post #327
slavik81 wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I made $0/hour when I was unemployed at the start of my career. Never had a job before, and nobody was willing to give me a chance, so I got nothing. I'm thankful that I will never be in that situation again. It was awful.

How did you shelter and feed yourself at $0/hour ? Somebody or something was providing you liquidity.

Usually, in that situation, either you have family or friends who can help you or you end up homeless.
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