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Before buying Ring, WEMO or Roku, consider privacy issues

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Re: Before buying Ring, WEMO or Roku, consider privacy issues

#101

Post by CamperBob2 »

dingojohnsons wrote: post #100
CamperBob2 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(Shrug) If Google can film public areas, then so can I. See, that's kind of the whole idea behind public areas. You aren't entitled to any expectation of privacy there. That's why they're called public areas, and not private areas. The distinction is remarkably easy to comprehend.

The distinction between could could and should? Or the distinction between private and public? Because all are debated on a regular basis, vary by jurisdiction/country, and are not black and white. Take the issues surrounding filming police officers in public is an example.

Take the issues surrounding filming police officers in public is an example.

Right, and that's a good example of what I was talking about in my earlier reply, with regard to any attempt at "fixing" the Ring situation leaving us in a worse place than where we are now.

Currently, in the US, you have the right to put up a doorbell camera and record anything that happens on your property or in public areas adjacent to it. This is a GOOD thing. Rest assured, any restrictions on public/private recording will serve the police, and no one else.

Re: Before buying Ring, WEMO or Roku, consider privacy issues

#102

Post by travisporter »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #101
dingojohnsons wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The distinction between could could and should? Or the distinction between private and public? Because all are debated on a regular basis, vary by jurisdiction/country, and are not black and white. Take the issues surrounding filming police officers in public is an example.

Take the issues surrounding filming police officers in public is an example. Right, and that's a good example of what I was talking about in my earlier reply, with regard to any attempt at "fixing" the Ring situation leaving us in a worse place than where we are now. Currently, in the US, you have the right to put up a doorbell camera and record anything that happens on your property or in public areas adjacent to it…

Recorded phone calls without consent in some states is still inadmissible as evidence in court. Surely at least that law would protect the person in the other end of the lens.

Re: Before buying Ring, WEMO or Roku, consider privacy issues

#103

Post by travisporter »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #97
dingojohnsons wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

s/my porch/the public roadway that my camera is recording 24x7/

(Shrug) If Google can film public areas, then so can I. See, that's kind of the whole idea behind public areas. You aren't entitled to any expectation of privacy there. That's why they're called public areas, and not private areas. The distinction is remarkably easy to comprehend.

I have zero objections to you recording your porch or driveway or whatever 24/7. Just don’t send it to amazon or google where they face match me and use their clever algorithms to extract money out of me at a store or something. Keep the video to yourself.

Re: Before buying Ring, WEMO or Roku, consider privacy issues

#104

Post by jeegsy »

sansnomme wrote: post #44
frereubu wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the idea is that, rather than fight hundreds of small battles like this every day, we should collectively agree (through democratic political means) what's acceptable without explicit permission.

Well if you care about it so much, contribute either money or code and create ecosystem with the same level of layman UX. It's difficult to get legislation when you cannot demonstrate alternatives that do not severely reduce convenience. This is a forum of overpaid software engineers. Distributed neural network training isn't science fiction anymore. Go ship or pay others to do so. Brave and DuckDuckGo built entire b…

Rather than working to devise "voice transcription on par with AWS", maybe we can also decide that some things are not necessary and should remain in the scifi realm. The novelty of yelling "Ok google navigate to...." wore off fairly quickly especially when I could just as easily type it. I use the "set an alarm for.." more often though. But really, imagine all the infrastructure required just so people can set alarms and timers with their voices!!!

Re: Before buying Ring, WEMO or Roku, consider privacy issues

#105

Post by CamperBob2 »

travisporter wrote: post #102
CamperBob2 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Take the issues surrounding filming police officers in public is an example. Right, and that's a good example of what I was talking about in my earlier reply, with regard to any attempt at "fixing" the Ring situation leaving us in a worse place than where we are now. Currently, in the US, you have the right to put up a doorbell camera and record anything that happens on your property or in public areas adjacent to it…

Recorded phone calls without consent in some states is still inadmissible as evidence in court. Surely at least that law would protect the person in the other end of the lens.

Those laws are just further examples where the powerful have shielded themselves at our expense. Corrupt cops and public officials have more to hide than you and I do, so they have more to fear from being recorded.

Re: Before buying Ring, WEMO or Roku, consider privacy issues

#106

Post by CamperBob2 »

travisporter wrote: post #103
CamperBob2 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(Shrug) If Google can film public areas, then so can I. See, that's kind of the whole idea behind public areas. You aren't entitled to any expectation of privacy there. That's why they're called public areas, and not private areas. The distinction is remarkably easy to comprehend.

I have zero objections to you recording your porch or driveway or whatever 24/7. Just don’t send it to amazon or google where they face match me and use their clever algorithms to extract money out of me at a store or something. Keep the video to yourself.

I hear you, certainly. I have cameras on my front porch, but you don't need to worry about the footage ending up in the hands of the police unless you actually commit a crime against me or my neighbors. And you don't need to worry about it being sent to Amazon in any event, because that's not going to happen, ever.

But I don't know how to give you the guarantees you're asking for without harming my rights, and ultimately yours.

Re: Before buying Ring, WEMO or Roku, consider privacy issues

#107

Post by loco5niner »

justinclift wrote: post #96
justinclift wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why should his desire to not have voice assistants in the house trump his roommate's desire to utilize the technology ... His roommate didn't have the courtesy to even ask about it up front. :( That being said, his roommate may just have not thought about it. Only way to find out is by starting the discussion and seeing how it goes.

To clarify: > Why should his desire to not have voice assistants in the house trump his roommate's desire to utilize the technology they paid for and want to use? One thing is about security and privacy (important), while the other is about convenience (trivial). That the roommate didn't even consider the security and privacy of other people is Not Ok. It seems fairly common in this early stage of voice assistants, s…

>That the roommate didn't even consider the security and privacy of other people is Not Ok.

That's a pretty ridiculous expectation to put on an end user. It's a normal phone doing normal phone things.

Re: Before buying Ring, WEMO or Roku, consider privacy issues

#108

Post by lewaldman »

nontoxyc wrote: post #86
cannonedhamster wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're new here. I suggest you read the rules of you haven't (it's to get an idea for how comments are handled and expectations). Comments tend to get downvoted if they do not add to the conversation. I'd give it a bit of time to learn how HN works before making up your mind. I get downvoted all the time, but if you're posting comments of value you can expect your karma to increase over time.

Been lurking and reading the articles for 3 years.

such a young soul...

Re: Before buying Ring, WEMO or Roku, consider privacy issues

#109

Post by travisporter »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #106
travisporter wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have zero objections to you recording your porch or driveway or whatever 24/7. Just don’t send it to amazon or google where they face match me and use their clever algorithms to extract money out of me at a store or something. Keep the video to yourself.

I hear you, certainly. I have cameras on my front porch, but you don't need to worry about the footage ending up in the hands of the police unless you actually commit a crime against me or my neighbors. And you don't need to worry about it being sent to Amazon in any event, because that's not going to happen, ever. But I don't know how to give you the guarantees you're asking for without harming my rights, and ultima…

Wait are we agreeing haha. I thought this whole thing was about ring and nest cameras that are mined by big corps.

Re: Before buying Ring, WEMO or Roku, consider privacy issues

#110

Post by justinclift »

loco5niner wrote: post #107
justinclift wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To clarify: > Why should his desire to not have voice assistants in the house trump his roommate's desire to utilize the technology they paid for and want to use? One thing is about security and privacy (important), while the other is about convenience (trivial). That the roommate didn't even consider the security and privacy of other people is Not Ok. It seems fairly common in this early stage of voice assistants, s…

>That the roommate didn't even consider the security and privacy of other people is Not Ok. That's a pretty ridiculous expectation to put on an end user. It's a normal phone doing normal phone things.

> It's a normal phone doing normal phone things.

Listening for watch words 24/7 is not a normal phone thing.

"Normal" phone conversations are between ~two people.

This voice assistant crap is sending people's audio to - at least - Google for processing/analysis/storage/etc.

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