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Data leak reveals how China 'brainwashes' Uighurs in prison camps

bbc.co.uk

121–130 of 174 posts

Re: Data leak reveals how China 'brainwashes' Uighurs in prison camps

#121
One might imagine China wants Xinjiang to remain Chinese, just as the US wants Texas to remain American.

Let us construct a hypothetical situation where our geopolitical adversaries (Russia, China, parts of South America) had spent the better part of the 20th century backing equally hypothetical Jihadist (or even Reconquista) separatists in Texas.

Perhaps the situation in Texas deteriorates when separatist Texans return from jihad in Syria, and some more violent fringes, armed and trained by Russia and China through proxies, begin widely-publicized attacks on civilians in California.

Perhaps the most ethical response by the US would be to deploy prisons and security services to Texas, and use technology to monitor potential separatist action within the state. Certainly there would be human rights abuses.

Now who is at fault, truly? The US? The separatists? No, of course not. One could place moral blame at the feet of our geopolitical enemies for encouraging this in the first place, but this is simply the reality of political action.

Just to be clear, what is happening to the Uighur people is horrific and inhumane and absolutely disgusting, but I will not allow this humanist sentiment to be perverted by propagandists to manipulate otherwise intelligent, compassionade liberals into nationalists and xenophobes in the name of maintaining the Western hegemon.

The anti-Chinese sentiment that has invaded the internet over the past several months has gone well beyond 'legitimate criticism of the Chinese government', and now sounds more like a racist, imperialist drumbeat for war. We should all be suspicious when fascists and libertarian capitalists find common ground and call it humanitarian.

Re: Data leak reveals how China 'brainwashes' Uighurs in prison camps

#122
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The students should have a fixed bed position, fixed queue position, fixed classroom seat, and fixed station during skills work, and it is strictly forbidden for this to be changed My school was like that when I was growing up. I'm not justifying what China is doing, and I didn't like it myself. But I find it weird to find it quoted here like that.

The difference is that you got to go home every day. Take a look at the full leaked document for details, the BBC quotes make it sound like a smaller deal than it really is.

I think you're reading too much into my commentary.

I'm not talking about China or comparing myself to them. There are much bigger issues than what was quoted.

But I just find it funny that someone would say "Is it even possible to not be broken by something like this?" about something that happened to me, in a western school.

Re: Data leak reveals how China 'brainwashes' Uighurs in prison camps

#123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s hard for Americans to take a high moral ground given that conduct.

"The core problem is that this rhetorical device precludes discussion of issues (ex: civil rights) by one country (ex: the United States) if that state lacks a perfect record." as a journalist wrote when Trump weaseled out of a discussion in a different context.

No, it hasn't got anything to do with that. It is simply that complaining about the same thing that another country does while your own country does it too is hypocritical.

You don't need to have a perfect record on everything else, but on that particular thing your statements are moot because your opponent (in this case China) will be able to simply ignore you because you do it yourself too. It would be about as effective as China calling the US to task for the same issue.

Re: Data leak reveals how China 'brainwashes' Uighurs in prison camps

#124
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The students should have a fixed bed position, fixed queue position, fixed classroom seat, and fixed station during skills work, and it is strictly forbidden for this to be changed My school was like that when I was growing up. I'm not justifying what China is doing, and I didn't like it myself. But I find it weird to find it quoted here like that.

[flagged]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/feb/20/florida-boy-...

https://www.thedailybeast.com/holocaust-survivor-yes-the-bor...

> Nor we’re you forcefully sterilized.

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/9keaev/indigenous-women-i...

Re: Data leak reveals how China 'brainwashes' Uighurs in prison camps

#125
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The students should have a fixed bed position, fixed queue position, fixed classroom seat, and fixed station during skills work, and it is strictly forbidden for this to be changed My school was like that when I was growing up. I'm not justifying what China is doing, and I didn't like it myself. But I find it weird to find it quoted here like that.

[flagged]

[deleted]

Re: Data leak reveals how China 'brainwashes' Uighurs in prison camps

#126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The core problem is that this rhetorical device precludes discussion of issues (ex: civil rights) by one country (ex: the United States) if that state lacks a perfect record." as a journalist wrote when Trump weaseled out of a discussion in a different context.

No, it hasn't got anything to do with that. It is simply that complaining about the same thing that another country does while your own country does it too is hypocritical. You don't need to have a perfect record on everything else, but on that particular thing your statements are moot because your opponent (in this case China) will be able to simply ignore you because you do it yourself too . It would be about as ef…

> No, it hasn't got anything to do with that. It is simply that complaining about the same thing that another country does while your own country does it too is hypocritical.

> You don't need to have a perfect record on everything else, but on that particular thing your statements are moot because your opponent (in this case China) will be able to simply ignore you because you do it yourself too. It would be about as effective as China calling the US to task for the same issue.

Neither the BBC nor I are American.

So maybe let's approach this in a more constructive manner: would you mind stating how you would discuss the topic of these chinese camps, taking into account both the scale of the problem and the severity of the events (without immediately derailing the discussion again)?

Re: Data leak reveals how China 'brainwashes' Uighurs in prison camps

#127
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hiding green accounts (tons of automated pro-China posts by Chinese bots) will be much helpful here.

Although it is true that China would make propaganda posts, there is a much simpler explanation here. Let's go with the simple explanation. People are creating fresh accounts to avoid the wrath of people who support Muslims. You don't have to be generally pro-China to be fully in support of what China is doing. You can hate the Uighers (Muslims) even if you also hate China. When you see your enemies fighting, you can…

[dead]

Re: Data leak reveals how China 'brainwashes' Uighurs in prison camps

#128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it’s not and the false equivalency is incredibly destructive. It must be possible for countries to judge others without being perfect themselves. South Africa was forced to capitulate due to international pressure. They took the moral high ground, even though their race relations at home were deeply troubled. But they could do that because people understood that there was a hierarchy of wrongs and racial profiling…

One could easily quote some scripture, but since I'm an atheist I prefer logic: It helps tremendously in taking a moral stance if one is not culpable in the very same way. What's bad for the world is that American also does this. It is imperative to future generations' well-being that the world comes to look more like countries that do this better than America, not that the world comes to look more like America. Mora…

The idea that America is doing things “in the very same way” is just so utterly unbelievable that I don’t know what to say. There are serious problems with the US handling of the border. There are also serious problems with Denmark’s seizure of assets from refugees and Australia’s detention of migrants on an island processing center. None of that should be mentioned in the same breath as what’s happening in China.

Re: Data leak reveals how China 'brainwashes' Uighurs in prison camps

#129
post #102
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Teach them that they live in a society, and so they have certain responsibilities, limits, and roles, as opposed to being mere individuals that can do whatever they please, others be damned? Sorry, but the Chinese have camps for ethnic (or religious) targeted detention and/or brainwashing. This is nothing like "what we do" in education, American or otherwise, and the similarities (the students having a specific desk,…

Your reasoning has always been the justification for the horrors of re-education camps.

Nonsense. It's like saying "arguments in favor of industrial production have always been the justification for the horrors of labour camps". Or "arguments in favor of the rule of law have always been the justification for the horrors of police abuse". There's a superficial similarity, but totally different scopes, methods, and outcomes.

In this case, I'm against things like the e.g. Native American re-education camps, because I believe that they have the right to their own culture (plus, they were there first).

But I'm in favor of mere education camps, also known as schools.

And guess what? Populations that was sent to "re-education camps" also are in favor of such things. They also have schools (or similar processes and teachings for their youth).

There's a whole lot of difference between a society teaching its children (which is how we're not animals merely grazing grass but have culture, technology, science, etc), and to be taken from your family for forced re-education to a different culture you don't belong to (and who is even adversarial to your people).

Re: Data leak reveals how China 'brainwashes' Uighurs in prison camps

#130
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is that you got to go home every day. Take a look at the full leaked document for details, the BBC quotes make it sound like a smaller deal than it really is.

I think you're reading too much into my commentary. I'm not talking about China or comparing myself to them. There are much bigger issues than what was quoted. But I just find it funny that someone would say "Is it even possible to not be broken by something like this?" about something that happened to me, in a western school.

I guess it's an interesting question to wonder how broken elementary students are ending up. We wouldn't probably notice anything wrong because everyone would be broken.
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