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Data leak reveals how China 'brainwashes' Uighurs in prison camps

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Data leak reveals how China 'brainwashes' Uighurs in prison camps

#81

Post by seanmcdirmid »

atomicity wrote: post #56
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You really don’t have an option to leave without being disciplined. Both systems are using similar tactics to create obedient factory workers; which is exactly the point. The work camp will use just more of that.

I like how mentioned this fact. K12 education, church, prison, and re-education through labor are all systems that hold certain people 'captive'. I've always felt arguments like "the parents can choose not to send their kid to their" or "the captor's intention was good" to be insufficient. No matter how that changes, the information/data flows from the captors to the 'captive' person's mind does not change much. At t…

Boot camp would be another example, when they want to rebuild recruits as soldiers. There is actually a fine line between acceptable and unacceptable brain washing techniques, I’m not sure what it is.

Re: Data leak reveals how China 'brainwashes' Uighurs in prison camps

#82

Post by reaperducer »

ioror93jf wrote: post #61
reaperducer wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you chose to only select a portion of the text. The second sentence is useful, too: "Implement behavioural norms and discipline requirements for getting up, roll call, washing, going to the toilet, organising and housekeeping, eating, studying, sleeping, closing the door and so forth" My school was like that when I was growing up. Your school proscribed when you go to the toilet and how to close a door?

Mine did, yes. Grew up in rural Midwest US in the 80s. We walked in lines on a schedule for bio breaks. We had to “shut a door respectfully” basically library rules for the sake of others. Our school had 25-30 kids per class. How else does one manage that? If you really needed to go you could and this article does not say that’s explicitly disallowed. I think you’re losing the forest for a tree here. The problem is t…

Our school had 25-30 kids per class. How else does one manage that?

Dunno. The teachers (nuns, priests, and monks) in my East Coast elementary school had 30-45 students per class, and somehow we didn't run amok.

(Yes, 45 was not an uncommon number. When your performance in class is publicly ranked weekly you become acutely aware of how many students are in the class.)

Re: Data leak reveals how China 'brainwashes' Uighurs in prison camps

#83

Post by kolanos »

monocasa wrote: post #33
mtts wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Read up on the gulags sometime.

Read up on our prisons. Like, what metric do you want to use? I'll let you pick.

The White Sea & Baltic Canal was dug by hand by Gulag prisoners. You can't be serious?

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulag#Conditions

Re: Data leak reveals how China 'brainwashes' Uighurs in prison camps

#84

Post by the_duke »

reaperducer wrote: post #60
the_duke wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have to stop expecting moral behavior from publicly listed companies. They will naturally trend towards short to medium term profit maximization within the given legal constraints. The boundaries for corporate behaviour have to be established by elected governments. In the case of China that could mean customs duties, sanctions and stricter regulations for moving part of your supply chain there.

This is a false dilemma. There are plenty of publicly listed companies that also engage in moral behaviors. Pretending it's an either/or situation only serves to excuse the behavior and derail the discussion.

We should support companies that act morally, and punish others by not buying their products and criticizing them.

But expecting them to act morally out of their own volition seems foolish to me. Note also that I explicitly said publicly traded companies. Large ones always have a diverse ownership structure with institutional investors. A CEO that hurts profits by acting in the public interest will probably be replaced pretty soon, forced to fall in line, or have to otherwise do enough to offset.

The only way to motivate them is external pressure or benefits.

Eg Apple has probably decided to focus on user privacy to provide a contrast with Google and the Android ecosystem and maintain a good relationship with customers, not because privacy is "good".

The situation is somewhat different with private companies, where there are few owners that can actually have an impact.

Re: Data leak reveals how China 'brainwashes' Uighurs in prison camps

#85

Post by pferde »

acdha wrote: post #70
bluejekyll wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I realize this might be wrong and based on not reading enough history about it, but I’ve always understood that the Holocaust was not well documented until after the war. Obviously many people fleeing Germany and the occupied countries during that period, knew something bad was happening, but overall, it’s my understanding that before and during the war, the rest of the world really wasn’t aware, or at least not awar…

It was more complicated than that: the Polish government in exile knew at least as early as 1940 and by at least 1942 those had been corroborated by allies and there were official reports presented to allied governments, the UN, and covered in major newspapers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mass_Extermination_of_Jews... https://timesmachine.nytimes.com/timesmachine/1942/02/13/852... The catch, of course, is that…

There were rumours of the atrocities, but probably the first public testimonies were the Auschwitz Protocols, based on first-hand experiences of a few concentration camp escapees. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auschwitz_Protocols)

Re: Data leak reveals how China 'brainwashes' Uighurs in prison camps

#86

Post by monocasa »

kolanos wrote: post #83
monocasa wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Read up on our prisons. Like, what metric do you want to use? I'll let you pick.

The White Sea & Baltic Canal was dug by hand by Gulag prisoners. You can't be serious? [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulag#Conditions

We have hard labor. That's why the 13th amendment makes an exemption to the ban on slavery for prisoners.

In the gulags that effort was at least spent on public works projects, here it's to make rich people slightly richer with next to free labor.

Re: Data leak reveals how China 'brainwashes' Uighurs in prison camps

#87

Post by ioror93jf »

dang wrote: post #79
ioror93jf wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mine did, yes. Grew up in rural Midwest US in the 80s. We walked in lines on a schedule for bio breaks. We had to “shut a door respectfully” basically library rules for the sake of others. Our school had 25-30 kids per class. How else does one manage that? If you really needed to go you could and this article does not say that’s explicitly disallowed. I think you’re losing the forest for a tree here. The problem is t…

Could you please stop creating accounts for every few comments you post? We ban accounts that do that. This is in the site guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html . HN is a community. Users needn't use their real name, but do need some identity for others to relate to. Otherwise we may as well have no usernames and no community, and that would be a different kind of forum. https://hn.algolia.com/…

Stop shadow banning them and I’ll stop creating them.

I keep noticing from other browsers that comments never show up so I start over.

Also apparently my home IP is on some list and so I hop on LTE.

Your own enforcement efforts seem to at least partly responsible for pushing me into this behavior.

Re: Data leak reveals how China 'brainwashes' Uighurs in prison camps

#88

Post by slimed »

bransonf wrote: post #47

China wants the Uighur‘s gone, period. I don’t think anything short of military action is going to stop that. And frankly I don’t think that is ever going to happen, because of the world powers that would be capable, they too hold resentment for Islamic religions.

It has nothing to do with that. If they were doing this to a Christian minority we still wouldn't be doing anything.

Mutually assured destruction is a powerful force.

Re: Data leak reveals how China 'brainwashes' Uighurs in prison camps

#89

Post by tracer4201 »

monocasa wrote: post #68
lostlogin wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They only do it to the radicalised children? Think about what you are saying.

[flagged]

This is a lie, and I hope you’re banned for spreading Chinese state propaganda. There is nothing here that justifies the internment of hundreds of thousands of people, including children. The Chinese communist party is a disease.

Re: Data leak reveals how China 'brainwashes' Uighurs in prison camps

#90

Post by walshemj »

freedomben wrote: post #55
bluejekyll wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I realize this might be wrong and based on not reading enough history about it, but I’ve always understood that the Holocaust was not well documented until after the war. Obviously many people fleeing Germany and the occupied countries during that period, knew something bad was happening, but overall, it’s my understanding that before and during the war, the rest of the world really wasn’t aware, or at least not awar…

We knew. FDR is even on record making statements about how we weren't there to save the Jews. The US had opportunities to bomb the train system being used to transport the Jews and didn't. I can't provide links right now (I'll try to circle back later), but we absolutely knew what was going on. We just didn't want to believe it.

A lot of intel was from ULTRA
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