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TikTok: Cheerfulness and censorship

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Re: TikTok: Cheerfulness and censorship

#61

Post by Faark »

simion314 wrote: post #23
TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no such thing as a politics-free network, only one that only allows politics you agree with.

Why do you think so, I am thinking for example of some on topic subreddits like r/DaystromInstitute , any post that would try to go offtopic and politicise stuff will be removed. As a non US citizen it is a breath of fresh air not to have all topics devolve into republicans vs democrats. IMO if you have rules that current politics is off topic and moderators that can enforce the rules, a community that respects the r…

I also like single issue communities. They are indeed a great escape from broader conflicts and focus on specific interesting stuff. But calling them non-political just because it's not the place to argue about e.g. what politics this community reinforces seems wrong. People should understand those are not places to find a balanced view of the world.

But creating a general virtual spaces for people to "live" in while banning discussing on one of the most important aspect of coexisting? This will hardly result in a free society of equally empowered individuals.

Re: TikTok: Cheerfulness and censorship

#62

Post by samirillian »

pgeorgi wrote: post #4

Their approach to moderation is unusual in that they don't even pretend to be a neutral platform and as such it's a powerful differentiator to businesses that are rooted in a "free speech" culture. Shadow-banning individual posts ("Visible to self") is relatively unusual and acts as a demotivator to publish controversial content because such content doesn't drive engagement, as is actively demoting entire classes of…

I think this is actually a pretty good model. I still dream of that perfect federated network that allows as complete autonomy as possible and finally kills both email and facebook messenger, but until then at least some people can have some joy in life.

Re: TikTok: Cheerfulness and censorship

#63

Post by TeMPOraL »

fzeroracer wrote: post #31
TeMPOraL wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ferrets are a weirdly political issue in some areas of the USA. They're not political except for a select group people who want to make it political. They should not be encouraged or appreciated for trying to push that outlook on others.

I mean, that's literally how politics work. Something isn't political unless people make it political, otherwise it's just the norm of the time. You could replace [ferrets are] with [gay marriage is] and get the description for any political argument ever. People argue X is political, others argue it isn't political and create a political argument trying to argue it is/is not political. Repeat as nauseam for topic of…

Agreed, but you forget about the (large) group of people who are indifferent to an issue either way and want to be left alone, and the (sometimes even larger) group of people who may have some opinion one way or the other, but don't want to join the fight.

Re: TikTok: Cheerfulness and censorship

#64

Post by samirillian »

_akei wrote: post #39
oefrha wrote: post #13

I fail to see why every platform has to become a fucking idealogical battleground. If I’m in the market for a social network myself (HN notwithstanding) I’d probably choose a politics-free one if possible.

Did you just call Hacker News apolitical? I feel even Reddit is better when coming to political debates because on Reddit you can find a subreddit that aligns to your political ideology. On HN, if you are from China, India, Russia, African country, the best thing you can do is to avoid articles about those geographical locations because comments will be mostly negative and any dissenting view will be downvoted until…

Respectfully disagree about Reddit. I am not at all ideologically aligned with HN people, but somehow the ones I'm supposed to be aligned with on Reddit are so much more annoying, because of all the reasons that I usually critique as facile: echo chambers, complete lack of anything resembling objectivity, etc.

Re: TikTok: Cheerfulness and censorship

#65

Post by kds3 »

jessaustin wrote: post #55
pgeorgi wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Showing non-sexual images of breasts on facebook may or may not work out well: https://www.facebook.com/the.ban.on.breastfeeding/ The sensibilities are different but they exist.

Is there breastfeeding on TikTok? More generally, is there anything on TikTok which is banned by Facebook?

> More generally, is there anything on TikTok which is banned by Facebook?

That's wrong question. It usually doesn't matter what is banned, but what is "shadow-banned" really matters.

You can't see what is shadow-banned on Facebook because they don't tell us how they do moderation on their news feed.

Re: TikTok: Cheerfulness and censorship

#66

Post by TeMPOraL »

flomble wrote: post #37
TeMPOraL wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "there's no such thing as apolitical, apolitical = supporting status quo" meme needs to die. It's just a slightly smarter-sounding variant of "if you're not with us, you're against us". It purposefully conflates two groups of people - people who don't engage with an issue because they like the status quo, and people who don't engage with an issue because (within reasonable bounds) they don't care which side wins.…

I think the problem here is that you're not seeing that 'politics' encompasses an incredibly broad spectrum of things, and the only time that something is labeled 'political' is when it reaches a certain level of controversial for the relevant society. For example, selling a hamburger would have been an obviously political act in the Soviet Union. We don't see it as such because vanishingly few people believe that co…

I do see "that 'politics' encompasses an incredibly broad spectrum of things", but I also see the motte-and-bailey argument being presented. The "politics" of everyday life is quite a different thing from the "politics" we're talking here.

RE your hamburger example, yes, it's apolitical within the context of society where hamburgers aren't political. Free trade or democracy isn't required, a hypothetical restaurant in the Soviet Union wouldn't have a problem selling grilled chicken breast. And if ever the Party decided that grilled chicken is a symbol of capitalism and therefore banned, the restaurant would just switch to serving fried chicken, or something else. Living in the status quo is not the same as endorsing it.

To me, the "not fighting status quo = supporting status quo" view is anathema to civilization. It's the peace-time equivalent of treating civilians as enemy combatants just because they live in the country you're at war with. It's an attempt to get other people to fight in your war, and suffer the collateral damage for you, and most people rightfully oppose it. If you want someone to support your cause, your strategy should be arguing that your cause is just - and not trying to get them to switch by making them believe not supporting you means supporting the enemy.

Re: TikTok: Cheerfulness and censorship

#67

Post by Faark »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #30
TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no such thing as a politics-free network, only one that only allows politics you agree with.

The "there's no such thing as apolitical, apolitical = supporting status quo" meme needs to die. It's just a slightly smarter-sounding variant of "if you're not with us, you're against us". It purposefully conflates two groups of people - people who don't engage with an issue because they like the status quo, and people who don't engage with an issue because (within reasonable bounds) they don't care which side wins.…

> Think of it this way [..]

Yes, being politically active all the time is not something we generally expect from most people / companies. Especially of the latter, since after all, their primary reason of existence is to make money for the investors.

> don't care which side wins

This is a valid political position. Probably the one I'd take for most realpolitik of small incremental changes based on occurring issues. But also one hard to justify in divisive times with diametrically opposed sides becoming highly popular, thus those extremes having an increasing chance to actually & drastically affect our lives.

That is, obviously, only if you live in a democracy were shaping politics is one of our civic duties. By the way, that doesn't mean everyone has to become experts in lots of topics. Delegating this is quite the responsibility as well.

Re: TikTok: Cheerfulness and censorship

#68

Post by SebastianKra »

s9w wrote: post #6

I can't see how TikTik censors more than facebook or most other social platforms. This seems only to be a concern since it's the "other" side (Chinese in this case) doing it. > the search for keywords controversial from the point of view of the Chinese Government [...] did not yield any or only very few fitting content Yeah I could give you a nice list of words that results in an similar results page from Google, You…

> Yeah I could give you a nice list of words that results in an similar results page from Google, Youtube or Facebook.

Could you give me some examples?

Re: TikTok: Cheerfulness and censorship

#69

Post by TeMPOraL »

madiathomas wrote: post #52
oefrha wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I excluded Hacker News from social networks I'm in the market for. HN is political as hell, and yes, whenever I make a niche (on HN) political comment I'm always prepared to burn karma.

Thanks for clarifying. I am in the same boat. Whenever I go against ideologies of HN, I am always prepared to lose some karma also. I refuse to use a throwaway account.

As it should be. Politics done right means we can agree or disagree with each other, but otherwise still coexist in peace. As for burning karma, you can lose it when arguing either way, and in my experience, whether you lose or gain points depends primarily on a) the quality of your comment (as separate from contents), and b) whether it's the US or Europe that's awake at the time you post it.

Re: TikTok: Cheerfulness and censorship

#70

Post by s9w »

SebastianKra wrote: post #68
s9w wrote: post #6

I can't see how TikTik censors more than facebook or most other social platforms. This seems only to be a concern since it's the "other" side (Chinese in this case) doing it. > the search for keywords controversial from the point of view of the Chinese Government [...] did not yield any or only very few fitting content Yeah I could give you a nice list of words that results in an similar results page from Google, You…

> Yeah I could give you a nice list of words that results in an similar results page from Google, Youtube or Facebook. Could you give me some examples?

I would get banned from this site faster than I could say Meinungsfreiheit
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