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In Norway, Start-ups Say Ja to Socialism

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Re: In Norway, Start-ups Say Ja to Socialism

#111

Post by yummyfajitas »

smokey_the_bear wrote: post #52
uuilly wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I paid $60 a month for catastrophic healthcare from State Farm when I ran a ramen profitable startup. My deductible was $1500. When I nearly cut my toe off walking on a beach, I had surgery, $1000 worth of antibiotics and two follow up visits. I paid a grand total of $1500 for everything. I know I'm a healthy young man, but that seemed like a pretty fair deal to me. Amazingly this plan will soon become illegal for be…

I know your point was specifically about young men, but this is one of the things that keeps women from doing startups. I'm young, healthy, female, and doing a startup, but one of my major concerns was finding a health care plan that would eventually cover maternity. Prior to the health reform law, if I'd developed any kind of condition I wouldn't have been able to switch plans, and even if I did, they often don't co…

Maternity is a ridiculous thing for insurance to cover, since it's an event entirely under the control of the insured. Similarly, you can't buy life insurance which covers suicide or fire insurance which covers arson committed by you.

Extremely expensive pregnancies are an insurable risk, but standard pregnancy is not.

Re: In Norway, Start-ups Say Ja to Socialism

#112

Post by brc »

xlpz wrote: post #85
brc wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're free to leave Norway whenever you like. You can own private property in Norway, and grow your business and keep at least half the profits. Socialist countries have state ownership, no private property, restrictions on freedoms. Norway is a social democracy. At any point the government could be voted out and replaced with one that changes all the laws. It's not a socialist country.

Who exactly gets to define that only authoritarian regimes with freedom restrictions practice anything that can be properly described as socialism?

I didn't. I said that a socialist country would have freedom restrictions in place. I didn't try and describe socialism as a construct, I described a country with a socialist government which referred to itself as such. I repeat, Norway is not a socialist country.

I'm happy to be given an example of a socialist country in which you're free to leave and own private property.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_socialist_countries

The joke here is that China and Vietnam are anything but socialist nowadays. China even has a property bubble, which must be turning old Mao around in his grave. But look down the list and you'll see a real who's who of totalitarian and authoritarian regimes. And not many startup hotbeds.

Re: In Norway, Start-ups Say Ja to Socialism

#113

Post by andrewljohnson »

uuilly wrote: post #97
smokey_the_bear wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know your point was specifically about young men, but this is one of the things that keeps women from doing startups. I'm young, healthy, female, and doing a startup, but one of my major concerns was finding a health care plan that would eventually cover maternity. Prior to the health reform law, if I'd developed any kind of condition I wouldn't have been able to switch plans, and even if I did, they often don't co…

So you're comfortable pushing those costs onto healthy young men?

And you're comfortable with a system of laws that preempts women from doing start-ups? For one, that seems like it's not going to lead to good outcomes - it's in the country's and the world's best interest to have all capable young people able to be entrepreneurs.

Second, of course I'm comfortable subsidizing women, young people, poor people, and other groups, because I view the world in a Rawlsian fashion. That is, it is just chance that I am a healthy, young, and relatively wealthy young man. But if I were a woman, or an immigrant, or subject to any other set of circumstances, then I would want the same opportunities as anyone else.

As for the specific case of whether or not the healthcare laws should provide a way for all women to safely and affordably make babies - then I would say a hearty yes to this too. And as far as I can tell, this law benefits men and women equally. Unless there is a test tube involved, all babies need a man and a woman, so I really can't see how healthcare coverage for pregnancies has a sexist bias.

I hope you enjoy your youth and health, but when you get sick or old, I think you'll change your tune.

Re: In Norway, Start-ups Say Ja to Socialism

#114

Post by andrewljohnson »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #111
smokey_the_bear wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know your point was specifically about young men, but this is one of the things that keeps women from doing startups. I'm young, healthy, female, and doing a startup, but one of my major concerns was finding a health care plan that would eventually cover maternity. Prior to the health reform law, if I'd developed any kind of condition I wouldn't have been able to switch plans, and even if I did, they often don't co…

Maternity is a ridiculous thing for insurance to cover, since it's an event entirely under the control of the insured. Similarly, you can't buy life insurance which covers suicide or fire insurance which covers arson committed by you. Extremely expensive pregnancies are an insurable risk, but standard pregnancy is not.

Brilliant! You're saying we should set up healthcare laws so poor people don't have children.

While you're at it, let's completely fall down this slippery slope, and not insure people who smoke, people who play dangerous sports, or people who travel to countries with high rates of infectious disease.

Let's craft a healthcare system with all sorts of incentives not do things that might make perfect sense, and one that punishes all of people's foibles.

Re: In Norway, Start-ups Say Ja to Socialism

#115

Post by jberryman »

uuilly wrote: post #48
zdw wrote: post #7

If you have less to lose, you're more willing to take risks. Thus having the government take care of basic welfare and health care benefits frees people to be entrepreneurial, in a sense. Compare to the US, where people are tied to a job based on the benefits they have through that job, and before the health care legislation's removal of preexisting conditions clauses, if you had a medical condition and lost your job…

I paid $60 a month for catastrophic healthcare from State Farm when I ran a ramen profitable startup. My deductible was $1500. When I nearly cut my toe off walking on a beach, I had surgery, $1000 worth of antibiotics and two follow up visits. I paid a grand total of $1500 for everything. I know I'm a healthy young man, but that seemed like a pretty fair deal to me. Amazingly this plan will soon become illegal for be…

But entrepreneurs are mostly healthy young men, and it doesn't cost much to insure healthy young men

You're begging the question. Perhaps healthy young bachelors are the ones quitting their jobs to make the next social-coupon-micro-dating websites because they are the only ones who aren't constrained by the factors we're discussing.

Re: In Norway, Start-ups Say Ja to Socialism

#116

Post by yummyfajitas »

andrewljohnson wrote: post #114
yummyfajitas wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maternity is a ridiculous thing for insurance to cover, since it's an event entirely under the control of the insured. Similarly, you can't buy life insurance which covers suicide or fire insurance which covers arson committed by you. Extremely expensive pregnancies are an insurable risk, but standard pregnancy is not.

Brilliant! You're saying we should set up healthcare laws so poor people don't have children. While you're at it, let's completely fall down this slippery slope, and not insure people who smoke, people who play dangerous sports, or people who travel to countries with high rates of infectious disease. Let's craft a healthcare system with all sorts of incentives not do things that might make perfect sense, and one that…

I'd love to fall down your slippery slope, and either not insure or charge very high rates to people who deliberately put their health at risk.

In general, a good regulatory scheme internalizes externalities (i.e., make polluters pay for the pollution they cause). If we force people who take care of their health to subsidize people who don't, we are externalizing an internality. That's the opposite of what good regulations should do.

Re: In Norway, Start-ups Say Ja to Socialism

#117

Post by jberryman »

uuilly wrote: post #97
smokey_the_bear wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know your point was specifically about young men, but this is one of the things that keeps women from doing startups. I'm young, healthy, female, and doing a startup, but one of my major concerns was finding a health care plan that would eventually cover maternity. Prior to the health reform law, if I'd developed any kind of condition I wouldn't have been able to switch plans, and even if I did, they often don't co…

So you're comfortable pushing those costs onto healthy young men?

Straw man. By buying health insurance as a healthy young man you are essentially voluntarily taking on those costs.

It is not a question of whether she wants others to fit the bill for her medical expenses, but whether society as a whole decides to accept an amount of responsibility for the health of its people.

Re: In Norway, Start-ups Say Ja to Socialism

#118

Post by forza »

sbt wrote: post #96

My God, where to begin on this unnecessarily provocative link-bait fuckup of a story. "This is particularly surprising, because the prices Dalmo pays for government services are among the highest in the world." >Of course, the country has some of the highest wages in the world so nursing is naturally not as cheap as in Nepal. "The capitalist system functions well," Dalmo says. "But I'm a socialist in my bones." > Let…

"It's also the country in the world with one of the highest suicide rates."

I wouldn't really call 36th "one of the highest", this is a myth. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_ra...

Re: In Norway, Start-ups Say Ja to Socialism

#119

Post by jongraehl »

sp332 wrote: post #102
uuilly wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you're comfortable pushing those costs onto healthy young men?

I don't know anyone who would mind pitching in a bit for a pregnant woman with complications.

You don't know anyone who would admit to minding, true.

Re: In Norway, Start-ups Say Ja to Socialism

#120

Post by kunley »

Funny that in the information era one can learn from mistakes of others, yet many people don't do this.

As someone who lived half of a life in a country which was an experiment on socialism, I wish them luck. And I wish they regain their senses. Quickly.

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