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Allbirds CEO on Amazon's copycat strategy

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101–110 of 135 posts

Re: Allbirds CEO on Amazon's copycat strategy

#101
post #88

If you can't succeed because somebody made a low effort, low quality copy of your product, then you don't deserve to make money. Especially in light of the fact that Coke has been around for 150 years and is essentially just sugar water.

What if the person who copies you also controls the marketplace, and prioritizes their copy above your original? That seems much closer to what Amazon is doing.

I did a search on both Amazon.com and Amazon.ca but couldn't find any Amazon Basic shoes that matched Allbirds. I also didn't listen to the podcast, so I must have missed it.

Re: Allbirds CEO on Amazon's copycat strategy

#102
My problem is when the oligopolies hurt the market with these practices.

I used to buy boxes of nitrile gloves from Home Depot for painting. Then they started carrying 'HDX' brand nitrile gloves. Then they stopped carrying all other brands of nitrile gloves.

I'm not sure the practice is the problem, or the oligopoly. I would shop somewhere else, but where am I going to shop? Lowes?

Re: Allbirds CEO on Amazon's copycat strategy

#103
post #12
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Coke actually has regulatory protections in place. They can use flavor extracted from coca plant through a special arrangement with the dea. Anyway they sell all kinds of varieties of sugar water, and the margins are extremely thin.

Did I read that correctly. The margin on coke are thin?

If you think the margins aren't thin, why don't you swoop in and undercut them?

Re: Allbirds CEO on Amazon's copycat strategy

#104
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There isn't a design there that's being copied or a brand being appropriated. I mean however many centuries back someone figured out cheddar cheese, but nobody alive has a proprietary claim to it.

What about sodas like Dr. Pepper vs. Dr. Thunder? Do you think producing Dr. Thunder is ethically questionable from a business standpoint?

Or Oreo and Hydrox?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrox

Re: Allbirds CEO on Amazon's copycat strategy

#105

Allbirds shoes look very very cheap. I stopped into their NYC store downtown twice. Each time I noticed a ton of glue that had seeped onto the wool when they glued the fabric on. I thought the first time it was a one-off issue. The pattern continues. Allbirds really needs to step up their quality. If you look at the product quality of Merrel, Danner, US Made Red Wing Shoes, it's night and day! I would never buy an Al…

I thought this topic was especially ironic because Allbirds are essentially a knockoff of Nike Flyknits.

Aren’t most Flyknits not wool? What aspect did they knock-off? The shoes appear very different in aesthetic and construction.

Re: Allbirds CEO on Amazon's copycat strategy

#106
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look at Zara. Without patents on clothing design, Zara often copies the latest catalogs from luxury designers and gets them to mass markets even before they do. From an operational standpoint its a great company. Thats why its worth billions of dollars and its the greatest retailer in Europe, and probably in the world.

AllBirds does have design patents. https://patents.justia.com/assignee/allbirds-inc

One cant patent design, only functionality. Thats why theres so much branding in the fashion industry

Re: Allbirds CEO on Amazon's copycat strategy

#107
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would be interested in seeing the results of an HN poll: "Do you agree with the existence of intellectual property laws?" It seems like a divisive topic here, and I suspect this is where the disagreement on dodginess comes from.

I also think there’s conflation here between knock-offs that do in fact violate IP laws which isn’t just dodgy but a violation of the law. And knockoffs that take the same general form or appearance of branded goods—with or without the same level of quality.

I agree that this is happenong in these comments. I also think that the people who support IP laws are more likely to find legal yet adjacent actions dodgy -- if you didn't support physical property laws you might find taking an legally abandoned yet possibly lost item dodgy, whereas somebody who doesn't believe in physical property laws is unlikely to have any objection to this.

Re: Allbirds CEO on Amazon's copycat strategy

#108
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This really depends on the retail methodology of a company. Space allocation in a category planogram (layout) is often ultimately decided by the category manager (corporate person who is responsible for P/L of that category), but can be affected by the heavy hitters in that category using their internal "retail services" department to help said category manager formulate their planograms. This usually results in some…

The retailer is looking to maximize its own profit. It's not going to put a totally DOA product on the shelves, but they do charge slotting fees to allocate shelf space for products. There's always a large set of products they could put there, so those slotting fees end up being a major source of margin for the stores. https://www.vox.com/2016/11/22/13707022/grocery-store-slotti...

[deleted]

Re: Allbirds CEO on Amazon's copycat strategy

#109

Allbirds is a luxury brand. Retailers offer cheap versions of luxury brands. There's little surprise here. Should Ray-Bans complain that Walmart offers sunglasses that look nearly identical at a tenth of the price? Amazon has plenty of dodgy business practices, but I don't think this is one of them.

if youre a smaller company making a product profitably and amazon sees this and duplicates your product to sell for less, they are able to do this only because of their gargantuan size. this only serves to further consolidate a market into a ever smaller tract. if you have no problem with monopolies or the business processes that create them, then sure, it isnt messed up at all. otherwise, yeah, its a dodgy business practice.

Re: Allbirds CEO on Amazon's copycat strategy

#110
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't hate the player, hate the game. That's business. The fact that your designers worked hard is irrelevant. Capitalism is by its very nature competitive, and it's on you as a business owner to figure out a working model in a world with fast followers. It's a bit like complaining that someone blocked your shot in basketball. It's allowed, those are the rules, do better next time.

Its funny because folks are arguing in this very same thread that we're also not allowed to hate the game, as they raise the hypothesis that capitalism makes "better goods cheaper". As in Basketball, there are things which are technically legal but will get your ass kicked if you keep doing them in a street game. Folks should be mad about design theft and they should do their best to buy goods that are quality and me…

You're shifting the goalposts. Presenting misinformation to consumers is generally illegal, and is also a completely separate concern from copying and building off of others' innovations. I haven't seen any comments here that support outright tricking unsuspecting customers into accidentally buying a cheap knockoff when they were looking for a higher-quality original.

A common misconception creatives tend to have about business is that it's 100% about crafting a unique and/or valuable product or service. It's not. There are innovations and competitive advantages one can have in distribution, sales, branding, pricing, and many other areas. These can also drive business success, and it is not scummy or dodgy to put them to use.

Some products are naturally defensible (e.g. the network effects of a social network) and some are protected by copyright and other laws (e.g. writing, photos, and logos, but not clothing or, in this case, shoe design), but the vast majority are wide open to competition, and it's your job as a business owner to either figure it out or avoid those industries.

You aren't automatically entitled to overall business success just because you were the first to do X or you worked the hardest on it. Doesn't matter if it's wool shoes, v-neck shirts, autotune in your music, customer support chat widgets, a mobile operating system, or like buttons in your social app. Just because you're a designer who likes designing and works hard at it doesn't make design a defensible business strategy in your industry.

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