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Basic Social Skills Guide (2012)

improveyoursocialskills.com

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Re: Basic Social Skills Guide (2012)

#141

Post by username90 »

crustacean wrote: post #131
magashna wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> most young women I dare you to go to an average bar or club and try to talk about code with most young women. It's not happening. Most people don't code, and most coders are male.

But why talk shop on a date at all though? - A shared niche interest is not sufficient basis for a good relationship. - I’m a woman in tech and I don’t necessarily wanna talk code on a first or second date, I’ve got professional development figured out on my own time.

> But why talk shop on a date at all though?

Because lots of programmers loves to talk about code?

> A shared niche interest is not sufficient basis for a good relationship.

Then what is a good basis for a relationship? A shared interest in ubiquitous interests like food, blockbusters or travel? I don't think that is much better.

> I’m a woman in tech and I don’t necessarily wanna talk code on a first or second date, I’ve got professional development figured out on my own time.

Good for you, not everyone feels like that though.

Re: Basic Social Skills Guide (2012)

#142

Post by pjanoman »

rollerboi wrote: post #90
wallflower wrote: post #53

While some of you may make light of the fact that I am giving you advice, my single most important piece of advice to people who are highly analytical and/or always solving problems is to not give unsolicited advice to friends, family, acquaintances, or even strangers. People will ask for advice if they really want it. People are not “broken pieces of code” begging to be fixed. I’ve lost friends over this, until one…

I've been working on this since I noticed it in myself a few years back. It's really difficult because I'm the "problem-solver," but I'm also the person that people want to vent to. So I've come to realize - After a friend/coworker shares something that they're sad/angry about, my standard MO is: 1) Say something like "Wow, that must really feel terrible. I'm sorry to hear that!" (I always feel the need to add more t…

If a friend/coworker shares something that they're sad/angry about, sometimes they're not asking for advice. Sometimes they just want someone to relate to them and their struggles. #3 can sometimes be a detractor because, once again, you need to wait for them to ask for advice and not just come in with your own advice/assuming that they are even asking for help. Venting emotions != Asking for help

Re: Basic Social Skills Guide (2012)

#143

Post by [deleted] »

kempbellt wrote: post #87
notJim wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience, the problem with environments like that is that the best fighters win, not the best ideas. The best fighters are usually the people who can project the most confidence, talk the loudest, and who are the most popular. By contrast, environments that provide psychological safety enable people who may have better ideas, but may not be as brash and overconfident to contribute.

I understand your perspective. Unfortunately, however idealistic, I don't see that being a great benefit in the long term for anyone. I prefer environments that teach you how to advocate for your ideas. Build you up as a good self-advocate. Environments that say "Hey everybody! It's Timmy's turn to speak. Pass him the talking stick" are patronizing and disgust me at the onset. Better to have someone by your side sayi…

[deleted]

Re: Basic Social Skills Guide (2012)

#144

Post by [deleted] »

magashna wrote: post #140
crustacean wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But why talk shop on a date at all though? - A shared niche interest is not sufficient basis for a good relationship. - I’m a woman in tech and I don’t necessarily wanna talk code on a first or second date, I’ve got professional development figured out on my own time.

The presumption was that it's sexist to assume you can't talk code with young women. I don't want to talk code with anyone 99% of my off time. But to say the reasoning is sexist is untrue.

[deleted]

Re: Basic Social Skills Guide (2012)

#145

Post by mturmon »

Sharlin wrote: post #57
wallflower wrote: post #53

While some of you may make light of the fact that I am giving you advice, my single most important piece of advice to people who are highly analytical and/or always solving problems is to not give unsolicited advice to friends, family, acquaintances, or even strangers. People will ask for advice if they really want it. People are not “broken pieces of code” begging to be fixed. I’ve lost friends over this, until one…

To add to this, it’s important is to realize that even when people open up to you about their problems, that still does not mean that they are asking for advice! It’s very likely that what they primarily want and need from you is sympathy and validation. If you’re unsure, ask first.

> If you’re unsure, ask first.

Good advice. Sometimes people clarify situations by talking about them, and simple active listening can provide what's needed.

If sympathy is what they want, and you start offering solutions, they will be tempted to argue back about why the solutions won't work, and then (as the saying goes) you have two problems.

Re: Basic Social Skills Guide (2012)

#146

Post by tunesmith »

zeropoint46 wrote: post #98
Sharlin wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To add to this, it’s important is to realize that even when people open up to you about their problems, that still does not mean that they are asking for advice! It’s very likely that what they primarily want and need from you is sympathy and validation. If you’re unsure, ask first.

Thanks for pointing this out. I agree 100%. When I find myself in this situation however I find it hard to be authentically sympathetic. And if it's not authentic I have trouble doing it at all. Am I broken? Is there anyway to work on this?

The focus is on the person, not the problem they are describing. So the question is what they need as evidenced by their choice to talk about the problem, not what they need as evidenced by the existence of the problem itself.

In other words, a choice to talk about a problem can be fueled by several possible impulses - the need to solve the problem, the need to connect with their friend, the need to share the interesting complexity of the problem, etc.

Re: Basic Social Skills Guide (2012)

#147

Post by babadabada »

SkyBelow wrote: post #121
babadabada wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a young woman in tech. I am happy to confirm that "since most young women aren't exactly excited to talk about code" is in fact some sexist bullshit.

How? Most people don't want to talk code. Thus, given a demographic breakdown that relates neither positively nor negatively with talking code, one can assume the general pattern applies. Most old people don't want to talk code. Most young people don't want to talk code. Most left handed people don't want to talk code. None of these are discriminating. They are stating that a pattern true of the general population al…

How?

Because making broad assumptions about 50% of the population isn't a cool thing to do. Especially given the excessive amount of nonsense women in tech (and not in tech) have to deal with on a daily basis. Talk like this leads to women feeling excluded from the tech community.

Also, specifically calling out "young women" as not being interested in tech really makes a lot of assumptions. Generally, people will talk about most topics - even if they aren't passionate about those topics themselves. Most women I know will happily talk about tech stuff with me, so maybe your approach is wrong.

Re: Basic Social Skills Guide (2012)

#148

Post by babadabada »

magashna wrote: post #110
babadabada wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a young woman in tech. I am happy to confirm that "since most young women aren't exactly excited to talk about code" is in fact some sexist bullshit.

> most young women I dare you to go to an average bar or club and try to talk about code with most young women. It's not happening. Most people don't code, and most coders are male.

> I dare you to go to an average bar or club and try to talk about code with most young women.

I dare you to go to an average bar or club and try to talk about code to literally any person.

Re: Basic Social Skills Guide (2012)

#149

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

iooi wrote: post #139
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #135

I have the whole "on the spectrum" thing going. It has been problematic for me. Got lots of atomic wedgies when I was a kid. I learned to ask my parents to buy underwear with really stretchy bands... For the last 39 years, I have been a participant in am organization that has self-analysis and self-improvement at its core. I won't go into it any further. It has made the aspie almost invisible. The only sign is that I…

For the rest of us on the spectrum, which organization has helped you so much? If you're not going to share, then what's the point of even commenting at all?

There's a number of reasons that I'm not mentioning it. The biggest one, is that it's not relevant to 90% of the folks around, but there are other reasons.

The reason that I mention it, is because I have experience (that's the thing you get with age, and mistakes), that bears out the basic premise of the post.

We're known for not playing well with others, but there's always hope, with discipline and work.

Have a great holiday season (if you have one coming up)!

Re: Basic Social Skills Guide (2012)

#150

Post by uwuhn »

magashna wrote: post #110
babadabada wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a young woman in tech. I am happy to confirm that "since most young women aren't exactly excited to talk about code" is in fact some sexist bullshit.

> most young women I dare you to go to an average bar or club and try to talk about code with most young women. It's not happening. Most people don't code, and most coders are male.

Even in certain parts of SF, which I'd argue is the most engineer-dense part of the US, you can go into an average bar or club and discover that most of the men aren't interested in talking about code either.
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