Just stop developing for Apple platforms, seriously. This is what happens when you encourage their walled garden.
Apple has locked me out of my developer account
201–210 of 480 posts
Re: Apple has locked me out of my developer account
#202Lots of people saying that Apple doesn't owe him any explanation, and that telling people why they're banned is just going to prompt "yes, but..." arguments in response. I've dealt with humans, so I'm sympathetic to that... and I've also been caught up by false-positives, so I can see how it can go horribly wrong.
I feel that what's being missed here is that Apple, per Rambo, explicitly said they'd get back in touch with him and tell him what's going on:
> Developer support then called me, and I gave my previous case number to a nice person on the other end of the phone, who explained that my case had been escalated to a supervisor, who then escalated it to their supervisor, and that I would hear back from them “soon”. This was in mid September. In early October, I called again and was told I would receive an e-mail explaining the situation, I haven’t.
Regardless of whether Apple should or should not, in the abstract, tell him what's happening... they've said they will, and they're messing up by not doing so.
(Though, yes, he's being quite disingenuous by not even alluding in the story to the way he almost-certainly has violated their developer agreement.)
Re: Apple has locked me out of my developer account
#203Earlier quoted context omitted.
How is that vindictive? It's true. What is the press going to do to help with an approval? That almost always should be a last resort.
First of all Apple earned the criticism that led to this rule. In what universe do we not have the right to denounce dumb shit corporations do? They simply have no right to quash free speech. This is exactly what being vindictive is. In the buildup to this rule Apple was wrong, inconsistent and sometimes just ridiculous in their app rejections. Calling broad attention to their problems, like their keyboard issues, is…
Having freedom of speech does not imply that the speaker should be free from the consequences of that speech. Especially hurtful or otherwise irresponsible speech.
And spreading pre-release confidential information is different from criticizing the company.
Apple is also free to decide who it wants to welcome into its developer community, and it’s fair that they take the content of your speech into account in that decision.
Re: Apple has locked me out of my developer account
#204Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The App Store is the only Apple supported way to release apps, there are unsupported third party app stores as well. On iOS, these are nothing more than hacks.
Right, third party app stores are not officially supported and for good reason. I am not sure what the alternative is, create a unmoderated free for all app store? That goes pretty heavily against the Apple ecosystem's philosophy and would make it easy for people to download damaging apps which Apple would then get blamed for because they added an official channel for installing them.
> and would make it easy for people to download damaging apps which Apple would then get blamed for because they added an official channel for installing them.
Do Android users blame Google or the phone manufacturer when they download a damaging app?
Re: Apple has locked me out of my developer account
#205Earlier quoted context omitted.
Even if that's all true, and even if Apple has good reasons to lock his account, why not just tell him the reason? I don't understand why tech companies have this passive aggressive attitude when users violate their rules of witholding information and giving some vague canned responses when asked about what's going on. Just tell him what happened in detail.
Because that’s opsec 101. If you tell a bad actor how you caught them, you’re just telling them how to do better (sneakier) next time.
Imagine if we applied the same mentality to the law.
Re: Apple has locked me out of my developer account
#206Earlier quoted context omitted.
Moderating an app marketplace is not the same as moderating an online community. When you start applying the same strategies that you would for an online community to a business owned marketplace, you end up with consumer unfriendly practices. When you rule by fist and swathing generalizations in an app marketplace, developers (and their incomes) become casualties. The stakes are a little bit higher than being banned…
It's different to be sure, but there are a LOT of parallels. Pretty much every instance where you have a given entity providing a platform you'll run into these kinds of issues, because rules exist, are enforced, and inevitably in that subgroup you'll have people who believe they were enforced wrong. And sometimes they're right, but it's such a vanishingly small number that you'd be forgiven for mistaking it as a rou…
Is it a vanishingly small number or is it one that you can't honestly track because you're not actually investigating on a per case basis?
The alternative is to... maybe not be super unfriendly and unhelpful when your account gets terminated? Maybe issue a warning first stating when and how you're violating a rule so you have a chance to correct it?
Re: Apple has locked me out of my developer account
#207Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The App Store is the only Apple supported way to release apps, there are unsupported third party app stores as well. On iOS, these are nothing more than hacks.
Right, third party app stores are not officially supported and for good reason. I am not sure what the alternative is, create a unmoderated free for all app store? That goes pretty heavily against the Apple ecosystem's philosophy and would make it easy for people to download damaging apps which Apple would then get blamed for because they added an official channel for installing them.
> Unmoderated free for all app store
I think we should call it Android. Given that, and a lack of a closed ecosystem, is why Android is hacked as much as it is, which is why I would never get rid of my iPhone in favor of an Android device - well, that and the lesser quality hardware, of course. But I think you see my point.
Re: Apple has locked me out of my developer account
#208> I’m just an indie developer trying to make good products. Apple should separate Rambo's software development from his reporting rather than retaliate against him, if that is indeed what is happening, but it is a little disingenuous for him to make the above claim. Rambo reverse engineers Apple products and publishes findings on 9to5Mac.com, in particular future product references that have slipped prematurely into…
Said it better than I could've – there are some pretty obvious reasons why Rambo's account could've been suspended, the clear violation of NDAs being the main one, with him publishing information about unreleased products. I'm honestly kind of surprised they let him keep his Developer account all this time. My bigger issue here is the complete lack of transparency or visibility into the process. It's this kind of stu…
This 100%. Government needs to get involved. Apple is clearly using its monopolistic power as shield against any kind of accountability. Devs have absolutely no recourse against this monopoly.
Re: Apple has locked me out of my developer account
#209Earlier quoted context omitted.
Goodwill. Just because you're the big gorilla and can act as such with impunity doesn't mean you ought to constantly remind people of that. One developer doesn't matter in the grand scheme, but every time they get to the front page of HN with a story like this it chips away at Apple's (or Google's, or whoever's) reputation. Collectively that does have value.
Apple has tons of goodwill with their users, and that's what matters. That's who pays the bills, and that's who funds the App Store. From the beginning Apple has had a very standoff-ish relationship with their developers. Their rules are clear from the outset: Play by them, or don't publish on our platform. To be honest I think developers occasionally still got entirely too much leeway to break their guidelines and g…
Sure the primary concern for Apple is users. But it's not like the platform could exist without the ecosystem around it, which largely depends on developers publishing apps. And it's not as if the dev accounts are not subscription-based - it's not expensive and Apple does not make a ton of money on this, but it's not free either.
And I don't think anyone suggests Apple should get rid of all the rules and accept anarchy on the platform, that'd be insane. They have the right to set the rules on their platform, and enforce them. And the developers should not be surprised when violations are handled accordingly.
The first problem is that a lot of the rules are entirely vague, to the extent that it's hard to make judgments based on the wording. (Essentially what we used to call "rubber law" years ago, a vaguely worded law that can be used to support whatever the state currently wants.).
The second problem is that you generally don't get clear explanation what rules you broke. That may seem reasonable, but whoever makes those decisions is bound to make some errors. And if you don't know what rule(s) you supposedly broke and how, you can hardly appeal the decision.
Yes, for Apple it's much easier/cheaper to provide as little information as possible, eliminating the issue of appeals (i.e. costs). But it's a bit of a dick move, really.
If you set rules for your platform, you really need to plan for proper enforcement, including providing information what rule was broken/how and allowing appeals.
Re: Apple has locked me out of my developer account
#210Earlier quoted context omitted.
Said it better than I could've – there are some pretty obvious reasons why Rambo's account could've been suspended, the clear violation of NDAs being the main one, with him publishing information about unreleased products. I'm honestly kind of surprised they let him keep his Developer account all this time. My bigger issue here is the complete lack of transparency or visibility into the process. It's this kind of stu…
> I strongly support some government action to change the current state of affairs with regards to the App Store being the only way to get apps on iOS A very slippery slope that will not end well for anyone, i.e. Apple, end users, and developers included. This is something I wouldn't advocate for personally and I'm not an Apple fanboi. I don't particularly care for the closed ecosystem but it does create security adv…
Im not clear what security advantage is offered to anyone by the oligopoly that is mobile app stores right now. To me it actually suggests iOS must be incredibly insecure if their security is so reliant on the Apple approval system. Can you even imagine where node.js would be if only microsoft could approve modules?