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The 40% Keyboard

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Re: The 40% Keyboard

#141

Post by clarry »

jacobolus wrote: post #132
clarry wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you re-arrange the keyboard into a shape according to human hand ergonomics, you can easily fit a number row that is easy to reach without making typos. See kinesis advantage. It's hard to imagine how requiring me to press two different keys for the same effect would increase speed and reduce typos. I suspect the effect is completely opposite. (Shift is painful enough and I hate typing camelcase code) Number keys…

The further keys on a sculpted Kinesis keyboard are angled the wrong way for comfortable typing (this is an unfortunate artifact of their curved PCB technology combined with lack of first-principles analysis by the designers). You want the switch axis to remain perpendicular to the hand, because flexing the proximal joint of the finger is the way people press keys, and using the whole hand to stab at further keys the…

> But it also works a bit better in practice to put more functions on shifted layers

I've never found that to be the case. For me, layers (and modifiers in general) have always been slower and more error prone.

Also, I find the number row on the kinesis quite comfortable. I have yet to find a comparable keyboard in that regard.

Re: The 40% Keyboard

#142

Post by roel_v »

terandle wrote: post #20
dangus wrote: post #7

Call me cynical, but I think a lot of the small style keyboards I see around the office are more of a fashion trend than anything. I remember when the insistence was on number pads, and how dare they be removed from our laptops and desktop keyboards. Fast forward a few years and I was made fun of at a programming job for preferring a full keyboard with a number pads. I guess programmers are too cool to enter in dolla…

No numpad is an ergonomic benefit. Your mouse is closer so you don't have to move your hand as far. The best way to have a numpad if you really need one, I have found, is to have a separate one like how the Microsoft Sculpt keyboard does it.

"The best way to have a numpad if you really need one, I have found, is to have a separate one like how the Microsoft Sculpt keyboard does it. "

The way I do this, is by having an 'Ultimate Hacking Keyboard' (ugh I loathe that name, how can anyone take you serious with a name like that? but at least the product itself is the best there is available (at the moment)) and then have a numeric keypad in the middle (between the two halves). I got one off Ali Express with mechanical keys, it's backlit with obnoxious blue leds, but once you let that go - it's quite a good setup.

Re: The 40% Keyboard

#143

Post by roel_v »

sundvor wrote: post #119
binarycrusader wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your mouse is closer so you don't have to move your hand as far. Not if you use a mouse left-handed ;) But more seriously, I grew up being trained to touch type in the classical way complete with ten-key exercises. I strongly prefer having a full numpad and I actually prefer the extra distance to the right for mouse usage. I've found over the years that the more I move my hands, the less likely I am to have discomfor…

I'd recommend everyone to get used to operating the mouse with either hand. It certainly helps load balancing, and probably has other benefits too. Consider it a DR plan if you suffer a dominant hand fracture, for example.

But the best mouses are tailored for one hand, like the MX Master. I used to switch mouses when I used generic mice, but I'm never going back to those.

Re: The 40% Keyboard

#144

Post by roel_v »

kranner wrote: post #25
baroffoos wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Some of those colored unlabeled keyboards look stunning on the desk. Why should a keyboard be purely a utility and not part of the room design. I own an unlabeled keyboard and I mildly regret it. I have no issues typing with it but I struggle with special keys like trying to find ^ or f5. Typing 2fa codes are a pain. If I was buying a new keyboard I would get a labeled one but with no numpad

You could just buy new keycaps and switch them on your current keyboard.

Only if you can find them with the labeling like you have your keyboard set up. It's the reason I switched away from Ergodox. If only someone would offer high quality custom keycaps, with double or triple labeling, using actual double shot injection moulding - which of course is pretty much impossible... But I'd pay $200 for a high quality key cap set that I can customize, so that I could have a printed Ergodox keycap set that isn't hand-labeled.

Re: The 40% Keyboard

#145

Post by slightwinder »

tony wrote: post #27
dangus wrote: post #7

Call me cynical, but I think a lot of the small style keyboards I see around the office are more of a fashion trend than anything. I remember when the insistence was on number pads, and how dare they be removed from our laptops and desktop keyboards. Fast forward a few years and I was made fun of at a programming job for preferring a full keyboard with a number pads. I guess programmers are too cool to enter in dolla…

> Small style keyboards I'm optimistic about them (depending on what "small style keyboards" mean to you). I consider ergodox in this category, due to how it does ctrl/z, function keys and layers. Ergodox-EZ is quite beautiful. The build quality on it is solid. It's heavy, for a keyboard. This is not a logitech or microsoft keyboard where they cynically use cheap materials. But, there are these "small" hacks: It join…

> But, there are these "small" hacks: It joins Z with the ctrl key. Z has to be hit twice to type Z. Sounds like the end of the world, right?

Then reconfigurate the layout. The greatest thing about such boards is the ability to programm them as you want. this is so great, it slowly starts leacking to other keyboards now.

Re: The 40% Keyboard

#146

Post by kentosi »

As someone who uses IntelliJ all day long I couldn't use a 40% keyboard at work due to all the layering combinations needed for F1 -> F12.

However I did try for a while, and the best I've gotten to is remapping my Caps Lock key to a meta key that converts hjkl to my arrow keys.

It's a small step, but I haven't looked back since. Typing is SO much faster when you never have to leave the home row.

Re: The 40% Keyboard

#147

Post by ekianjo »

terandle wrote: post #20
dangus wrote: post #7

Call me cynical, but I think a lot of the small style keyboards I see around the office are more of a fashion trend than anything. I remember when the insistence was on number pads, and how dare they be removed from our laptops and desktop keyboards. Fast forward a few years and I was made fun of at a programming job for preferring a full keyboard with a number pads. I guess programmers are too cool to enter in dolla…

No numpad is an ergonomic benefit. Your mouse is closer so you don't have to move your hand as far. The best way to have a numpad if you really need one, I have found, is to have a separate one like how the Microsoft Sculpt keyboard does it.

> No numpad is an ergonomic benefit. Your mouse is closer so you don't have to move your hand as far.

Or you know, you don't need to use a mouse at all when you are used to living with keyboard shortcuts and the right desktop environment that goes with it.

Re: The 40% Keyboard

#148

Post by roel_v »

xouse wrote: post #64

I know a lot of people who think they can touch type the number row, but I've yet to meet anyone who can actually do it at anything resembling their normal typing speed and without errors. If people could there would be no reason for the numberpad to exist. I'm a very fast typist and I've always struggled with touch typing the number row. Thirty minutes into using a split 40% keyboard and I was using the number row a…

The problem is that you need to be able to touch type, but also know how to not touch type, i.e. actually knowing what character is where, when entering passwords, regular expressions etc. I can touch type, but I have no idea where all the individual numbers are; I have to type 'in the air' to make my muscle memory explicit. When entering something character by character, you can't really 'touch type' them; touch typing is about operating at an abstraction level above 'character by character'.

Re: The 40% Keyboard

#149

Post by Symbiote »

Yizahi wrote: post #98

People like to talk a lot about KB ergonomics, reducing carpal syndrome and there is a reason for it, but I don't understand why almost nobody does the one thing that contributes the most for improvement - inverted KB stand. This thing on the bottom - https://imgur.com/a/yne4lPR . People fiddle with layouts, key travel, key shape, switches etc. but that doesn't really matter if your wrists are crooked. If your wrists…

I cringe slightly when I see people designing mechanical keyboards like this [1]. That's a great "standard" layout! It's split, it still has space around the arrow and navigation keys to aid finding them by touch, and the numpad is on the left.

But there's a 1.5cm (or so) tilt on the thing! Removing that is always the first thing any ergonomics guide instructs, but here it's a fixed part of the case.

Many DIY split ergonomic keyboards either have many tenting/tilting options, or are flat allowing you to make your own [2].

[1] https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=103144.0

[2] http://xahlee.info/kbd/diy_keyboards_index.html

Re: The 40% Keyboard

#150

Post by Fnoord »

m463 wrote: post #45
dangus wrote: post #7

Call me cynical, but I think a lot of the small style keyboards I see around the office are more of a fashion trend than anything. I remember when the insistence was on number pads, and how dare they be removed from our laptops and desktop keyboards. Fast forward a few years and I was made fun of at a programming job for preferring a full keyboard with a number pads. I guess programmers are too cool to enter in dolla…

Make things as simple as possible but no simpler ! Personally I type two ways: 1) engaged. I type with my fingers on the home row. This is for when I'm actively involved and typing / editing. 2) casual. For navigating. I usually do it with my fingers on the arrow keys, sometimes hitting page up/down. I don't use my other hand. My typing will not be used for input. Sometimes I use the mouse / mousewheel. The 40% keybo…

> casual. For navigating. I usually do it with my fingers on the arrow keys, sometimes hitting page up/down

> The 40% keyboard fails #2

Only because you don't use hjkl to navigate. You could, but you don't (for whatever reason).

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