"Google Stadia is not a product that exists because people want it" • Hacker News Board

Re: "Google Stadia is not a product that exists because people want it"

#541

Post by Animats » Wed, Nov 20, 2019, 2:52 AM UTC

From a game developer point of view, it's terrifying. If you thought that dealing with Nintendo or Valve was tough, imagine dealing with Google.

"The biggest complaint most developers have with Stadia is the fear that Google is just going to cancel it"[1]

You don't even get to see the terms and conditions unless you apply to be a developer and are accepted. That's scary. Maybe the big guys get better terms. Then there's the Google "I am altering the deal" approach to terms.

Google already has a cloud-hosted game product - Improbable's Spatial OS, a back-end system for large MMOs. Improbable raised about $2 billion to develop it, and it's used only by a few indy developers, two of whom launched, got some users, then shut down their game. Cost too much. Runs only on Google's servers. There are some games in development for it that might launch someday. (I liked the Improbable technology concept, but they spent so much VC money developing it that it's now too expensive to use. The investors are going to have to take a haircut.)

[1] https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2019/11/stadia-launch-dev-the...

Re: "Google Stadia is not a product that exists because people want it"

#542

Post by magashna » Wed, Nov 20, 2019, 2:55 AM UTC

corodra wrote: post #481

delecti wrote: post #475

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe you don't view video games as being "as nutritious" as your personal preferred forms of entertainment, but that doesn't make those preferences universal. I've brought handheld gaming devices on virtually every trip I've made in the past decade, whether for work or pleasure, and I doubt I'm an outlier.

I know people that bring cigarettes to every trip they've had in more than 10 years. Doesn't make it right either. Always having to rely on video games and the internet is a problem. You seriously can't mature through being alone in your own thoughts? People gladly, even smugly, say I'm a bad guy because on the weekends I treat myself to a cigar. Yea, I know it's bad and I don't push that habit off as some glorious t…

"You watch any good movies, read any good books, or play any good games lately?"

"No, child, I was honing my mind as one does a blade."

Someone might smugly say that indeed.

Re: "Google Stadia is not a product that exists because people want it"

#543

Post by Lev1a » Wed, Nov 20, 2019, 2:57 AM UTC

SmirkingRevenge wrote: post #488

Lev1a wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Furthermore, with initiatives by Microsoft (Project xCloud) and EA (Project Atlas), there's no reason to accept Google as the standard bearer for game streaming. There's plenty of companies that could be coming up with the experience we've been waiting a better part of a decade for. Also, when those other streaming services are at least somewhat established there will most likely be content fragmentation soon after…

> Also, when those other streaming services are at least somewhat established there will most likely be content fragmentation soon after, i.e. Microsoft (published) games only on "Project xCloud" etc. like we're seeing in Video Streaming currently. That's been the norm of the gaming industry for ages. Mario, Sonic, Halo, etc - its always been fragmented. You have to pay for an expensive console to get at the exclusiv…

> Streaming services have the potential to improve that situation

That was also the case with video streaming. Unfortunately once the publishers/broadcasters got the faintest whiff they could force customers into paying them a subscription fee for their content (and after that some services have the audacity to still put ads in/on/around the content) it was every publisher for themselves pulling their content from competing services' catalogs (like IIRC Disney pulling all their stuff from Netflix).

I can already see this coming once the competing publishers have all set up their own GaaS solutions.

Re: "Google Stadia is not a product that exists because people want it"

#544

Post by cultofmetatron » Wed, Nov 20, 2019, 2:58 AM UTC

corodra wrote: post #471

seangrogg wrote: post #431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But, if you are escaping reality more often than you are in it... that's a problem. I do spend quite a bit of time escaping from reality and I do agree it's a problem. The greater SF Bay area suffers from a large amount of empty virtue signaling and shaming others into their morality while remaining apathetic to others plights. Work, while having the potential to be exhilarating, often descends into the myopic and…

Don't live in San Fran then? Florida has prettier beaches and nicer people. I grew up in Florida, traveled the country in my 20s, and came back to Florida last year. Plenty of social gatherings and people who want to make friends here. The Space Coast (aka NASA county) is packed with engineers for obvious reasons. Colorado was the hardest place to make friends honestly... but the scenery in Colorado... you don't need…

I spent a year in florida. I'll agree to some extend. the food is fantastic, the weather is nice and the snorkeling and parks are wonderful. All that said, I spent way too much time trying refuting the idea that steven miller's kids in cages plan is good for america and among other very persistent conservative talking points. Also that I don't believe in jesus seems to be an open invite for people trying to "save" me. It is what it is and SF is a dumpster right now so I can't disagree.

Re: "Google Stadia is not a product that exists because people want it"

#545

Post by chrischen » Wed, Nov 20, 2019, 2:59 AM UTC

edna314 wrote: post #230

chrischen wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can play new AAA games on high with just a $150-$200 GPU. Every other piece of your computer doesn't really matter.

Doesn’t it make more sense if google buys this gpu and shares it among, say, 50 users who have maximum an hour of gaming every week? It almost certainly has to be cheaper sharing hardware among users instead of having each single user owning a piece of hardware which is idle almost all of the time. Unless of course hardware price is neglect-able with respect to game price.

The equilibrium cost of sharing the hardware vs owning will probably be similar... the main difference here is that you're also playing with noticeable latency for fast action games which, even if you play infrequently, will impact the game play of certain games.

Re: "Google Stadia is not a product that exists because people want it"

#546

Post by magashna » Wed, Nov 20, 2019, 3:00 AM UTC

corodra wrote: post #514

robteix wrote: post #502

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can please you calm down? You've been spamming this discussion while getting increasingly hostile. We get it, you don't think people should play as much videogames as they do. Good, we get it.

I'm fascinated by people's reactions. The identity to needing video games absolutely intrigues me. So yea, at this point, it's my vice to poke and prod and better understand how people relate to video games. So... yea, I'm identifying with trying to better understand the psyche of those that identify with needing video games every minute of their lives. That, and I'm actually really curious how many downvotes it take…

> trolling to see how many downvotes to get banned

And here I was thinking video games were a waste of time! Heyooo

Re: "Google Stadia is not a product that exists because people want it"

#547

Post by FooHentai » Wed, Nov 20, 2019, 3:01 AM UTC

vvanders wrote: post #334

shinteao wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>all the negative reviews of Stadia are by people who already have console/gaming PCs. I think most people who like playing video games would have some sort of video game playing hardware, yes. So, they might have opinions on what a good gaming experience is. And, if they have issues with Stadia (incl latency, graphical fidelity, and library), then it might be coming from an informed place.

Yup, also if you look at people who write or have written netcode for a living, it's been pretty obvious where Stadia was heading for a while. You need to be able to reliably hide ~100-200ms of latency for any number of reasons. If you're talking about something that runs over wifi you're fighting against the laws of physics and no back-end infrastructure is going to save you. The way you do that is with client side…

I agree with your overall point but not so sure on this specific piece:

>If you're talking about something that runs over WiFi you're fighting against the laws of physics and no back-end infrastructure is going to save you.

Signal propagation speed (velocity factor) over air is only a bit slower than cat7 copper, and on-par with fiber optic. From memory:

In a vacuum: VF = 1 (equal to speed of light)

Over copper: VF = .75 (one quarter speed of light)

Over air or fiber: VF = .66 (one third speed of light)

Wi-Fi is measurably slower than wired copper cable for a few reasons but I don't understand physics to be one of them. With the distances relevant to last-mile connectivity like we're discussing here, that difference in VF appears to be immaterial.

Then again, you could argue that the air being a contended medium is by it's very nature a physics problem, and that does seem to be the root of most of the drawbacks of running low-latency workloads over wireless. Not necessarily an insurmountable physics limit though, with spectrum allocation, code division, and beam forming already doing a lot to mitigate the issue, there's the potential for further developments that might bring things to parity.

Still, you're not going to get past the VF limit I described above but again, if we're only talking about in-home WiFi rather than across the entire service-to-consumer run, it doesn't play a large part.

Re: "Google Stadia is not a product that exists because people want it"

#548

Post by chrischen » Wed, Nov 20, 2019, 3:02 AM UTC

jupp0r wrote: post #210

chrischen wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can play new AAA games on high with just a $150-$200 GPU. Every other piece of your computer doesn't really matter.

You do need a desktop to put the GPU into and the space in your house forever taken up by that rig. I'd rather sit in a comfy chair with my Macbook.

Most gamers with a desktop PCs also sit in comfy chairs, albeit not with a Macbook.

Re: "Google Stadia is not a product that exists because people want it"

#549

Post by magashna » Wed, Nov 20, 2019, 3:08 AM UTC

ArmandGrillet wrote: post #36

I want Stadia. I've read reviews yesterday and was amazed by the lack of a long term vision from the reviewers. If Google doesn't drop the ball (which is a huge if knowing the company's history), Stadia makes a lot of sense. I want to play Red Dead Redemption 2, the cheapest way to do that as I don't have a console nor an expensive computer is Stadia. And when I will want to play Cyberpunk 2077, Stadia will be the ch…

My local library not only has a huge game selection, they will ship games from within the library network to a library closest to me. It's basically Blockbuster for games, but free. New games too, it's how I've played any PS or Switch exclusives for the past few years.

Re: "Google Stadia is not a product that exists because people want it"

#550

Post by corodra » Wed, Nov 20, 2019, 3:09 AM UTC

cultofmetatron wrote: post #544

corodra wrote: post #471

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't live in San Fran then? Florida has prettier beaches and nicer people. I grew up in Florida, traveled the country in my 20s, and came back to Florida last year. Plenty of social gatherings and people who want to make friends here. The Space Coast (aka NASA county) is packed with engineers for obvious reasons. Colorado was the hardest place to make friends honestly... but the scenery in Colorado... you don't need…

I spent a year in florida. I'll agree to some extend. the food is fantastic, the weather is nice and the snorkeling and parks are wonderful. All that said, I spent way too much time trying refuting the idea that steven miller's kids in cages plan is good for america and among other very persistent conservative talking points. Also that I don't believe in jesus seems to be an open invite for people trying to "save" me…

I have never been asked to be saved by jesus in all my years in Florida. Cali, Oregon, washington, and obviously in Virginia and Utah. But never Florida. What's the religion where they say Jesus came to America? Whoever they are, they're really active in Seattle. Especially the bus stops.