We ‘may’ have discovered a potential remedy for tinnitus • Hacker News Board

Re: We ‘may’ have discovered a potential remedy for tinnitus

#251

Post by ymolodtsov » Tue, Nov 19, 2019, 10:27 PM UTC

jly wrote: post #152

_8j7i wrote: post #81

Is it possible that tinnitus is actually just a person's inability to ignore natural noise in the hearing systems? More of a physchological issue like chewing fingernails or having OCD, but which can be amplified by legitimate physical hearing damage? I ask this because for all the life I can remember, I've always been able to perceive a high-pitched tone, even in completely quiet environments. If I actually focus on…

I think there is absolutely something to this. I have mild tinnitus and my hearing is fairly poor after too many years of loud headphone use. However, I rarely notice a bothersome perception of noise unless I focus on it. Other similar phenomenon exist. For example, some people are strongly bothered by floaters in the eyes while others seem to take it more easily in stride, as the brain will naturally compensate the…

Well, having both tinnitus and floaters in both eyes is certainly not a great experience. Sometimes I just hope my nose won’t start smelling bacon all the time.

Re: We ‘may’ have discovered a potential remedy for tinnitus

#252

Post by klyrs » Tue, Nov 19, 2019, 10:29 PM UTC

ubercow13 wrote: post #225

lazyasciiart wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, you shouldn't expect to cuddle the speakers - but I go to live shows in small venues where I'm trying to dig myself into the wall at the furthest point from the speakers because it's too loud. They just need to turn it down.

Have you heard how loud an unamplified acoustic drum kit is in a small venue? It would be loud enough to damage your ears alone. On top of that for many kinds of music, drums have to be amplified to give them a certain sound. Then everything else has to be brought up to that volume.

My left ear is perceptibly worse than my right. The only explanation I know is that I play violin, and that's the ear closest to the instrument. Acoustic instruments can be surprisingly loud!

Re: We ‘may’ have discovered a potential remedy for tinnitus

#253

Post by Wyth » Tue, Nov 19, 2019, 10:35 PM UTC

reeddavid wrote: post #233

There are many calls for personal responsibility here. But I think the average person is not making a choice to sustain permanent hearing damage – most people don't know the risks. I used to own a decible meter. I brought it to a movie theater (large chain) and found sustained volume of 100+ decibels. It was physically painful. I was the only customer who complained to the theater. I asked what sound level they inten…

I've been an audio/visual engineer and freelance projectionist for many years, and would like to touch on a couple things. The level of volume should be equalised to 80-83 decibels from each audio channel at a level of '7' on the sound processor. So, in theory, it should not be 'up to the projectionist'.

There are, however, a couple problems. Most movie theatres do not have projectionists anymore. The movies you are watching on screen are being played by a manager on the other side of the building, that never once checks on it. At all. Frankly, it's irresponsible to not ever check inside of the theatre to make sure the picture and sound are ok. In fact, I've worked in many theatres where the manager doesn't even know where the projection booth is, or how to get there. If there's a problem, they only know about it when there's a complaint, and even then it's easier to just give out comp tickets to the people who complained, while they continue making money off the people who don't. Usually, they'll even continue running shows in that room before calling someone in to fix the problem.

The other issue, is that studios, in an attempt to keep up with the audio level of pre-show advertisements, continue mixing their films even louder, disregarding a standard that is supposed to be set, to keep people's hearing safe. Which in turn has the theatre chain turn the volume up on their ads even further.

Most of this is from neglect from theatre managers and higher ups, not projectionists who randomly decide to blow people's hearing.

Re: We ‘may’ have discovered a potential remedy for tinnitus

#254

Post by ResidentSleeper » Tue, Nov 19, 2019, 10:36 PM UTC

goda90 wrote: post #234

reeddavid wrote: post #233

There are many calls for personal responsibility here. But I think the average person is not making a choice to sustain permanent hearing damage – most people don't know the risks. I used to own a decible meter. I brought it to a movie theater (large chain) and found sustained volume of 100+ decibels. It was physically painful. I was the only customer who complained to the theater. I asked what sound level they inten…

Do you know how these musician's earplugs work? I imagine instead of just blocking vibrating air like regular earplugs, it must be trying to dissipate the sound waves a bit. Is that even possible across the whole range of sound?

Materials absorb different parts of the frequency spectrum with varying efficiency. Regular earplugs are made to simply stop as much sound as possible and hence there's a lot of muffle at the top of the spectrum (that's easiest to achieve - cover your ears!). Concert earplugs are more carefully designed to absorb the entire spectrum as uniformly as possible.

Re: We ‘may’ have discovered a potential remedy for tinnitus

#255

Post by hartator » Tue, Nov 19, 2019, 10:36 PM UTC

reeddavid wrote: post #233

There are many calls for personal responsibility here. But I think the average person is not making a choice to sustain permanent hearing damage – most people don't know the risks. I used to own a decible meter. I brought it to a movie theater (large chain) and found sustained volume of 100+ decibels. It was physically painful. I was the only customer who complained to the theater. I asked what sound level they inten…

Completely agree.

I've been in situations several times where the sound was awfully loud for no reasons. Obvious concert and clubs but also less suspicious theaters, outside movie events, and indeed restaurants.

Now when in loud environments, my left ear is buzzing and perceived the sounds as distorted. When it's not. Similar to a cranked up bad speaker like other commenters pointed in it out. It's very hard to describe to people as it's not very common.

Re: We ‘may’ have discovered a potential remedy for tinnitus

#256

Post by laputan_machine » Tue, Nov 19, 2019, 10:38 PM UTC

hartator wrote: post #255

reeddavid wrote: post #233

There are many calls for personal responsibility here. But I think the average person is not making a choice to sustain permanent hearing damage – most people don't know the risks. I used to own a decible meter. I brought it to a movie theater (large chain) and found sustained volume of 100+ decibels. It was physically painful. I was the only customer who complained to the theater. I asked what sound level they inten…

Completely agree. I've been in situations several times where the sound was awfully loud for no reasons. Obvious concert and clubs but also less suspicious theaters, outside movie events, and indeed restaurants. Now when in loud environments, my left ear is buzzing and perceived the sounds as distorted. When it's not. Similar to a cranked up bad speaker like other commenters pointed in it out. It's very hard to descr…

I have the exact same thing in my right ear. I assume it's permanently damaged, but I've never had my hearing checked.

Re: We ‘may’ have discovered a potential remedy for tinnitus

#257

Post by cryptonector » Tue, Nov 19, 2019, 10:42 PM UTC

nappy-doo wrote: post #202

pedrocr wrote: post #129

Finding a cure or treatment for tinnitus would be awesome. I have a very mild case from a few too many loud concerts. What I find amazing is how we don't attack the source of the problem much that I can see. Concerts, clubs, fireworks, even movies blast away above any reasonable level, causing damage to large parts of the population. We all just get progressively damaged hearing bit by bit. And yet there's very littl…

I'm sorry you hurt your hearing. I know quite a few with tinnitus, and some of them are borderline suicidal with how horrible it is for them. I doubt legislation with help. As a drummer from my early teens till mid 30s (some of that time in a partially successful band), and attender of thousands of shows, I KNEW concerts were too loud, and ALWAYS took earplugs (except once to a Weird Al show). I think I still suffer…

If you need ear protection, and so does everyone else, then maybe the volume is too high, no?

Also, why not hand out ear protection? Whenever you go into a datacenter there should be a dispenser of ear plugs, so why not too at concerts?

What does a teenager or young adult know about this anyways? Nothing, really, and they aren't even conscious of the damage being done until it is too late.

Personal responsibility for tinnitus? Please. No. Responsibility for tinnitus is diffuse. There's a lack of awareness, lack of education, lack of regulation, lack of enforcement. I don't doubt that legislation could help: just make it a requirement that concert venues hand out ear plugs. It's harder to deal with bars, naturally, but even there, there could be a requirement for a maximum decibels for music at 15ft from speakers, and requirement that there be a sound power sensor. Gun ranges, for example, have to provide you with ear protection, and they do -- what works for gun ranges can work for other public accommodations.

Re: We ‘may’ have discovered a potential remedy for tinnitus

#258

Post by ouid » Tue, Nov 19, 2019, 10:48 PM UTC

nappy-doo wrote: post #202

pedrocr wrote: post #129

Finding a cure or treatment for tinnitus would be awesome. I have a very mild case from a few too many loud concerts. What I find amazing is how we don't attack the source of the problem much that I can see. Concerts, clubs, fireworks, even movies blast away above any reasonable level, causing damage to large parts of the population. We all just get progressively damaged hearing bit by bit. And yet there's very littl…

I'm sorry you hurt your hearing. I know quite a few with tinnitus, and some of them are borderline suicidal with how horrible it is for them. I doubt legislation with help. As a drummer from my early teens till mid 30s (some of that time in a partially successful band), and attender of thousands of shows, I KNEW concerts were too loud, and ALWAYS took earplugs (except once to a Weird Al show). I think I still suffer…

Why don't you think legislation will help?

Re: We ‘may’ have discovered a potential remedy for tinnitus

#259

Post by zzzeek » Tue, Nov 19, 2019, 10:52 PM UTC

pedrocr wrote: post #212

nappy-doo wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry you hurt your hearing. I know quite a few with tinnitus, and some of them are borderline suicidal with how horrible it is for them. I doubt legislation with help. As a drummer from my early teens till mid 30s (some of that time in a partially successful band), and attender of thousands of shows, I KNEW concerts were too loud, and ALWAYS took earplugs (except once to a Weird Al show). I think I still suffer…

At least where I am legislation already exists. What I'm puzzled by is why it doesn't seem to be policed at all, and why nobody seems to care. When rivers, soil or the air are being visibly produced we at least get some public reactions. For some reason for sound we don't perceive it the same way.

a real law would be based on measurement, not perception.

Re: We ‘may’ have discovered a potential remedy for tinnitus

#260

Post by zzzeek » Tue, Nov 19, 2019, 10:55 PM UTC

mitch-snipline wrote: post #55

I would urge anyone that suffers from tinnitus to get their hearing checked if they haven't already. Getting hearing aids has given me significant relief from tinnitus and if my hearing aid battery dies the tinnitus comes back fairly quickly. It's as if my ear is trying to compensate for the lack of sound. Of course, there are multiple reasons for tinnitus to occur so your mileage may very, but it's absolutely worth…

how does a hearing aid correct for tinnitis?

I have permanent though currently modest hearing damage and persistent tinnitis of several different sounds at the same time.

it's clear I'm going to have a hearing aid in the coming years as my dad does also, even though unlike me, and he was not a drummer that stood next to speakers in clubs, but he doesn't have the tinnitus.