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USS Pueblo

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Re: USS Pueblo

#101

Post by chimi »

HBKXNCUO wrote: post #80
chimi wrote: post #52

I always wonder about claims like this where one nation says a ship was within their borders and the other nation says it was in international waters. This USS Pueblo is one incident. Israel attacked a Turkish ship in international waters. Iran attacked oil tankers in international waters. All these incidents ... I can't help but think we never grow up as human beings all the way until becoming international super po…

Does growing up to you mean forgoing your own national interests in order to appease holier-than-thou internet commenters?

Please don't troll.

Re: USS Pueblo

#102

Post by ruchir_21hj »

jackpirate wrote: post #93
x220 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you taught computer science, yes? Would you say that it's difficult to teach someone hacking if they don't already have a working understanding of core computer science principles? If hackers in NK don't have access to digital infrastructure set up by other engineers, their work would be much more difficult if not impossible. >Western experts who study the DPRK largely agree with me that educational exchanges are…

Computing is a fundamental skill that forms the basis for all of modern life. We here at hacker news are constantly advocating that everyone (in the US) should learn some amount of programming, and I believe the same holds true in North Korea. As a concrete example of the things I taught, look at the official KCNA webpage http://www.kcna.kp (North Korea's main state run newspaper). This webpage is very poorly designe…

Going through the translated page of - http://www.kcna.kp (North Korea's main state run newspaper). So many news articles start with "Beloved Highest leader", "Beloved Supreme Leader" etc. Such a stereotypical NK propaganda. Is this the main source of news in North Korea? I cannot imagine life under North Korean regime. But seems like you had a great time there. Were you free to move anywhere you want in North Korea or were there guides with you?

Re: USS Pueblo

#103

Post by brianshaler »

alexhutcheson wrote: post #75
ruddct wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct, and yep would highly recommend going. Tough to imagine it causing an issue getting into the US, as the trip originates/terminates in China and doesn't get you a passport stamp. (Disclaimer: US immigration politics are crazy right now, so obviously take all that with a healthy grain of salt)

It's hard for me to understand why someone would want to go after reading about the case of Otto Warmbier[1]. There are plenty of interesting and exciting places to visit in the world that don't put you at the mercy of DPRK officials and their reaction to geopolitical events. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_Warmbier

Is it also hard for you to understand why someone would go to the US after reading about the case of Eric Garner[1]? There are plenty of interesting and exciting places to visit in the world that don't put you at the mercy of police officers and their reaction to selling cigarettes.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Eric_Garner

Re: USS Pueblo

#105

Post by HBKXNCUO »

chimi wrote: post #101
HBKXNCUO wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does growing up to you mean forgoing your own national interests in order to appease holier-than-thou internet commenters?

Please don't troll.

You essentially said we're not grown up because we don't live in some kind of magical world where nations don't have competing interests that manifest in these sorts of displays. Competition is inherent to life, and, if anything, growing up means accepting that.

Re: USS Pueblo

#106

Post by pdonis »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #58
chimi wrote: post #52

I always wonder about claims like this where one nation says a ship was within their borders and the other nation says it was in international waters. This USS Pueblo is one incident. Israel attacked a Turkish ship in international waters. Iran attacked oil tankers in international waters. All these incidents ... I can't help but think we never grow up as human beings all the way until becoming international super po…

My favorite in particular in this line of "geopolitical I'm not touching you" is what we call "freedom of navigation exercises". The US runs through the South China Sea on them all the time. Basically, China says it's their territory, the US says it is international waters. And so we "prove" it by regularly traveling through it with US warships for no other purpose then to prove we can.

> China says it's their territory, the US says it is international waters. And so we "prove" it by regularly traveling through it with US warships for no other purpose then to prove we can.

Suppose the US claimed that the entire Gulf of Mexico was US territory. Would people be as sympathetic to that as they appear to be to China claiming that the entire South China Sea is Chinese territory? (Note that the South China Sea is more than twice as large as the Gulf of Mexico, and less of its coastline is part of China as compared with the amount of Gulf of Mexico coastline that is part of the US.)

Re: USS Pueblo

#107

Post by x220 »

jackpirate wrote: post #93
x220 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you taught computer science, yes? Would you say that it's difficult to teach someone hacking if they don't already have a working understanding of core computer science principles? If hackers in NK don't have access to digital infrastructure set up by other engineers, their work would be much more difficult if not impossible. >Western experts who study the DPRK largely agree with me that educational exchanges are…

Computing is a fundamental skill that forms the basis for all of modern life. We here at hacker news are constantly advocating that everyone (in the US) should learn some amount of programming, and I believe the same holds true in North Korea. As a concrete example of the things I taught, look at the official KCNA webpage http://www.kcna.kp (North Korea's main state run newspaper). This webpage is very poorly designe…

Would you mind answering my questions? I would appreciate it.

Re: USS Pueblo

#108

Post by chimi »

HBKXNCUO wrote: post #105
chimi wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't troll.

You essentially said we're not grown up because we don't live in some kind of magical world where nations don't have competing interests that manifest in these sorts of displays. Competition is inherent to life, and, if anything, growing up means accepting that.

Please don't troll. I'm happy to engage, but not with trolling.

Re: USS Pueblo

#109

Post by andrecarini »

ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #76
alexhutcheson wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hard for me to understand why someone would want to go after reading about the case of Otto Warmbier[1]. There are plenty of interesting and exciting places to visit in the world that don't put you at the mercy of DPRK officials and their reaction to geopolitical events. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_Warmbier

Not that I condone traveling to North Korea, but Otto is almost definitely the example of "don't do something dumb" the op was thinking of. >The tour group celebrated New Year's Eve by carousing in Pyongyang's Kim Il-sung Square before returning to their accommodations at the Yanggakdo International Hotel, where they continued drinking alcohol. Early in the morning of New Year's Day, Warmbier allegedly tried to steal…

> don't do something dumb > he stole a poster

How are we certain that he did in fact steal the poster? For all we know he could have been entirely innocent and any other tourist could have been arrested and tortured for forged reasons too.

Re: USS Pueblo

#110

Post by ApolloFortyNine »

andrecarini wrote: post #109
ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not that I condone traveling to North Korea, but Otto is almost definitely the example of "don't do something dumb" the op was thinking of. >The tour group celebrated New Year's Eve by carousing in Pyongyang's Kim Il-sung Square before returning to their accommodations at the Yanggakdo International Hotel, where they continued drinking alcohol. Early in the morning of New Year's Day, Warmbier allegedly tried to steal…

> don't do something dumb > he stole a poster How are we certain that he did in fact steal the poster? For all we know he could have been entirely innocent and any other tourist could have been arrested and tortured for forged reasons too.

Well in this case there is a video.
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