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USS Pueblo

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91–100 of 118 posts

Re: USS Pueblo

#91
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US neo-colonialism is your answer?

After taking a look at the Hong Kong protests, I'll gladly take American colonialism over China's. And so, apparently, would the people of Hong Kong.

How does that track? China is bad for trying to assert legal authority over a city no-one disputes they own, so the US should continue imperialism?

Re: USS Pueblo

#92
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Liberty is a common antisemitic talking point. It is an incident in which the Israeli military attacked and killed American troops. Both the deliberateness and the potential motive of the attack are unknown and unexplained. It doesn't take much for the conspiracy theorists to turn that into "Jews want to kill Americans".

And that makes it a dogwhistle how? The (((echo))) is a dogwhistle. "Globalists" is a dogwhistle. The USS Liberty incident is just another point on the miles-long list of war crimes committed by the Israeli military and pardoned by the American UNSC veto. The accusation of antisemitism whenever misbehavior from the Israeli government comes up is itself antisemitic because it presupposes that "the Republic of Israel"…

I didn't use the term dogwhistle. I didn't put forward any theory regarding what "actually" happened with the Liberty. I didn't accuse anyone of antisemitism. I am simply stating a fact that this is something that antisemitic people often point to as proof of the evilness and/or anti-American behavior of Jews. The actual facts of what happened are mostly irrelevant in regards to how the incident has been co-opted.

>The accusation of antisemitism whenever misbehavior from the Israeli government comes up is itself antisemitic because it presupposes that "the Republic of Israel" and "the Jews" are the same thing.

I believe this argument is pointless since people on all sides of this debate selectively draw and blur the line between Israel and Jews depending on what point they are trying to make.

Re: USS Pueblo

#93
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who has professional experience running/developing cyberwarfare and nuclear military operations with the US military, I can unequivocally state that the work I did at PUST was not developing these capabilities for North Korea. Western experts who study the DPRK largely agree with me that educational exchanges are a great way to improve relations between the US and DPRK, building on the model of how educati…

But you taught computer science, yes? Would you say that it's difficult to teach someone hacking if they don't already have a working understanding of core computer science principles? If hackers in NK don't have access to digital infrastructure set up by other engineers, their work would be much more difficult if not impossible. >Western experts who study the DPRK largely agree with me that educational exchanges are…

Computing is a fundamental skill that forms the basis for all of modern life. We here at hacker news are constantly advocating that everyone (in the US) should learn some amount of programming, and I believe the same holds true in North Korea.

As a concrete example of the things I taught, look at the official KCNA webpage http://www.kcna.kp (North Korea's main state run newspaper).

This webpage is very poorly designed, and cannot even be indexed by Google due to poorly implemented AJAX queries. In my classes, we would talk about why this is bad design and how to improve it. The DPRK would benefit from producing better webpages, but so would the rest of the world. These webpages are one of the few sources we have for understanding life in North Korea, and I personally want to encourage the North Koreans to fill them with high quality and easy to access content. Currently, they simply don't have enough skilled programmers capable of performing these tasks.

IMHO, this is a clear example of how teaching computer science benefits both the North Koreans and Americans without improving North Korean hacking skills.

Re: USS Pueblo

#94
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup. How else can you stop Chinese colonialism?

US neo-colonialism is your answer?

there's plenty in US foreign policy to criticize but maintaining the open nature of international waters for everybody is not colonialism

Re: USS Pueblo

#95
post #7

A foolhardy idea would be to surreptitiously go there while some other action is happening elsewhere and tug it out. Now, it’d be difficult to pull off and offers no upside and lots of downside, but it’d be very intrepid to pull off.

Might be an interesting technology demonstration for robotics. Sail a robot submarine across the Pacific, surface in the Potong River, release a few drones to cut the mooring lines and slip a tow onto it, and tow it out to international waters. They shoot at you? Honey badger don't care, there ain't no people there.

MM a high tech cutting out - in the old day they used ships boats and sailors and marines to do that

Re: USS Pueblo

#96

Ten years ago two guys managed to enter in Noth Korea by train from Russia spending 36 hours without a guide. https://vienna-pyongyang.blogspot.com/ They obviously went to see the USS Pueblo as well... It's kind of a long read, but very interesting, imho.

a nice video of the trip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1mzXFAzUjQ

Re: USS Pueblo

#97
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> First it’s not an invasion, it’s an incursion. This is a really weird hair to try to split, given that the two words are essentially synonymous. > When an army crosses a border into another country for battle, they are making an incursion into enemy territory. An incursion is an invasion as well as an attack. [0] > [An incursion is] An aggressive movement into somewhere; an invasion[1] > Invasion is a synonym for i…

They are not the same. The Russians have incursions into our airspace and we do similarly to them. We don’t call those “invasions”. An invasion is more physical in terms of control. When you invade you’re attempting to control an area with troops some time accompanied by non local pop. An incursion may result in extrication, surveillance or reconnaissance, those sorts of things.

This is (mostly) false. The US and Russians hardly ever intentionally "incur" into each others' airspace. That basically stopped in the 1960s because the risk is just too high. Even accidental incursions are exceedingly rare now due to better navigational equipment.

The US and Russians do legally conduct authorized reconnaissance flights over each other's airspace. This is authorized under the terms of the Open Skies Treaty and is specifically not an incursion.

https://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/openskies

Re: USS Pueblo

#98
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After taking a look at the Hong Kong protests, I'll gladly take American colonialism over China's. And so, apparently, would the people of Hong Kong.

How does that track? China is bad for trying to assert legal authority over a city no-one disputes they own, so the US should continue imperialism?

China sends in soldiers as police, does false flag attacks, hires the triads, tear gasses 90% of the city, kills protesters on the streets, and arrests protesters and fakes their suicides. I'd much rather deal with US police.

Re: USS Pueblo

#99
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does that track? China is bad for trying to assert legal authority over a city no-one disputes they own, so the US should continue imperialism?

China sends in soldiers as police, does false flag attacks, hires the triads, tear gasses 90% of the city, kills protesters on the streets, and arrests protesters and fakes their suicides. I'd much rather deal with US police.

This is one of those situations where I have to hold two conflicting ideas in my head at the same time and am reminded of the difficulty of doing that.

You both make good points. China is doing a lot of bad stuff here, but it is their land and their right to exert their power over it how they see fit.

If China tried to tell another sovereign nation how to handle their internal disputes, they'd be just as wrong as the west is in this.

This is really something China needs to handle. It's not the west's place to butt in.

At the risk of whatabouting it, most of all the tactics you're saying China is using in Hong Kong have been used by western governments as well. It's not right.

You know, China gave away Hong Kong to stop the bombing from the west and now China is trying to wrestle back control of it... kind of still, in a way, from the west.

It was the west that caused this problem in Hong Kong. It's time the west stopped meddling in it and I think that'd be best.

Re: USS Pueblo

#100
post #3

Visited this last year, remarkably good condition. The Koreans were very keen to point out the size of the armoury and guns on board the ship.

I suppose that's to be expected from the North Koreans, but it's rather funny, since the ship is actually very lightly armed. Wikipedia says it only has 2 M2 Brownings aboard, does the North Korean museum claim it was armed with more, or do they claim that's heavily armed?

I think they emphasized the weaponry because the US billed it as the capture of an environmental research ship in international waters, while the DPRK preferred to position it as a thwarted military incursion into sovereign Korean waters.
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