Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation • Hacker News Board

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#481

Post by dominotw » Tue, Nov 19, 2019, 5:14 PM UTC

mikl wrote: post #451

dominotw wrote: post #251

What a weird statment. How can a country decide to drop a crime against its citizen. Shouldn't the person who got raped be deciding that.

In most European countries, the state prosecutor decides who to charge with a crime, regardless what purported victims think. It might be a bit foreign, but it does help with some cases, like partner violence, where the victim might not want to press charges against a violent partner. Under this model, if the police learns of the crime, they are obliged to prosecute it if possible.

> the state prosecutor decides who to charge with a crime, regardless what purported victims think.

So state prosecutor can simply drop the charges if she feels like it?

in usa people have the right to jury trial. Seems really unfair that prosecutor can unilaterally simply drop your case, wonder why its that way.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#482

Post by tremon » Tue, Nov 19, 2019, 5:14 PM UTC

shadowgovt wrote: post #413

asdernr wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yah. Then get send over to US and A and killed. Checkmate

The saddest thing about Assange's story is that when one lives in the realm of the paranoid for too long, the paranoia eats them. The US and A isn't in the business of assassinating visible targets. There's plenty of people who believe they are, but there's plenty of evidence they aren't. If they were, Manning wouldn't still be breathing.

Are you asserting that Osama bin Laden wasn't a visible target?

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#483

Post by 8note » Tue, Nov 19, 2019, 5:14 PM UTC

samdfonseca wrote: post #473

atoav wrote: post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Come out and we will tell you what you’re guilty of”. The US was once a great defender of liberty and democrac, but when you talk to its average citizen nowaday you start to get truely weimarian vibes.

His actions are entirely undemocratic. Sweden and the US have both democratically built a system of justice that we all agree to subject ourselves to. He decided to evade that system to serve his own self-interest. What about defending the liberty of the alleged rape victim? Do they only have the right to their day in court if the accused is ok with it?

he's neither swedish nor American; he was not democratically involved in building either judicial system

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#484

Post by FreedomFreedom » Tue, Nov 19, 2019, 5:14 PM UTC

mariorossi666 wrote: post #344

scarejunba wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one has demonstrated net positive value from the intelligence community.

We have proof that every intelligence in the world is working to undermine our freedoms, so it's easy to speculate (with some degree of certainty) that if others have their own agencies you need to have yours, to counter theirs.

What are those "freedoms", where is that proof, and what is the motivation of these "intelligences"?

I assume they do it because they hate American freedom.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#485

Post by pvaldes » Tue, Nov 19, 2019, 5:15 PM UTC

mariorossi666 wrote: post #242

colejohnson66 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, the old “he was free to leave anytime” argument. No. He wasn’t. Yes, technically, he was free to leave, but arguing that is ignoring the fact that leaving would mean jail. It’s victim blaming. Would you say a victim of Stockholm Syndrome is “free to leave at any time”? No, because that’s a ridiculous argument. Would you say Snowden is “free to leave [Russia] at any time”? No! So why is it an acceptable argument w…

> but arguing that is ignoring the fact that leaving would mean jail. > It’s victim blaming Yeah, but the victim is the woman he raped and that will not see any justice, because he ran...

> the woman he raped and that will not see any justice

Presumption of innocence is a basic concept in law, and an international human right.

We don't know at this point if he raped, assaulted, grabbed by some part of the body, or did anything to any woman. There was not a trial, no judge, no proofs, no videos.

What we know is that Wikileaks most probably contributed to save lots of women from being massively raped. There was a global sense of impunity for armies before and a totally different situation after Assange. Soldiers were allowed to do anything they pleased with civils including children and women. Not so easy anymore

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#486

Post by kempbellt » Tue, Nov 19, 2019, 5:15 PM UTC

monocasa wrote: post #450

mariorossi666 wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know why you're asking me, I'm just reporting what the trial was about and what the prosecutors said. The court ruled against Manning in favour of the prosecutors. She was "acquitted of the most serious charge, that of aiding the enemy, for giving secrets to WikiLeaks" under the spionage act, which means treason. If you want an explanation from me, they said that the fact that she stole classified documents r…

Because you're the one saying that she > betrayed her country that she swore to protect And I mean, she was acquitted of aiding the enemy, ie. that charge didn't stick. All of the charges that did stick are around improperly storing classified data. And as I've said before, the prosecution couldn't come up with any actual harm at her trial, so "betrayed" is you embellishing the story.

Classic game of gossip going on here. "I heard it on the news/online. Even if it isn't true, I'm going to share what I heard, because WOW! What if?!"

Furthering the cancerous distortion of the truth via willful ignorance.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#487

Post by danShumway » Tue, Nov 19, 2019, 5:16 PM UTC

joshuamorton wrote: post #469

danShumway wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Fleeing from the law made Assange seem like a coward, which worked against his cause. There is no better way to seem guilty than to run from a legal process that most people feel is fair, even if you personally think otherwise. This comment comes up a lot in regards to Snowden too. I'm not a huge fan of Assange, but my feeling is that the people who whistleblow on corrupt governments at great personal risk don't ow…

Snowden hasn't, I don't believe, ever claimed that the law he broke was particularly unjust or that he'd be unfairly persecuted should he return to the US. He just felt that breaking the law was worth it, and importantly was and is comfortable living with the consequences. Assange didn't do that. He just claims unfair persecution.

Snowden's been pretty explicit that he would be willing to return to the US if he was guaranteed a free trial, and that he believes the Espionage Act would deprive him of that trial.

> They want to use special procedures they want to be able to close the courtroom, they want the public not to be able to go, know what's going on. And, essentially, the most important fact to the government and this is the thing we have a point of contention on, is that they do not want the jury to be able to consider the motivations.[0]

[0]: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/edward-snowden-nsa-cbs-this-mor...

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#488

Post by jki275 » Tue, Nov 19, 2019, 5:17 PM UTC

paulmd wrote: post #479

jki275 wrote: post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously, if you all believe everywhere else in the world is so much better, why stay? For context, I'm married to a person from a real developing country, as it's actually defined. I'm sending multiple family members to school there so they can get out. Every single person in her family has done everything they can to get out. Every single person I know there has done everything they can to get out. Every single pe…

Largely because people have roots here and it's a pain to move. What, you're supposed to quit your job, leave your extended family, sell your house and possessions, find a new job and place to live overseas, and potentially even learn an entire new language? Just to be sure you won't be tortured? (assuming you can even find a place to take you - things are easier here for this crowd, tech skills are in-demand and usu…

It's not a 1% chance. Even if one accepts your definition of torture, people who aren't criminals are very rarely caught up in the system at all. So it's far less than 1% as long as you're simply not a criminal.

If the US were really so bad, people would leave. The people who do leave typically leave for tax purposes opposite to your belief.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#489

Post by davengh » Tue, Nov 19, 2019, 5:17 PM UTC

samdfonseca wrote: post #467

dingoegret wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know why you don't think a trial doesn't carry seriously negative and scary connotations, but it does and no rational person just subjects themselves to persecution.

I agree that standing trial for rape must be terrifying, but that doesn't mean he's being persecuted. We've agreed upon a system of justice that best protects the rights of both the accuser and the accused, and he decided to deny the alleged victim their day in court. He was free to leave the embassy, he was free to defend himself from humiliation, but he chose not to.

We've agreed on a system of law. Actual justice is frequently only an accidental byproduct.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#490

Post by belorn » Tue, Nov 19, 2019, 5:17 PM UTC

counterpig wrote: post #336

ckastner wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You quote: > “Mr. Assange has been deliberately exposed, for a period of several years, to progressively severe forms of cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment, the cumulative effects of which can only be described as psychological torture.“ That quote lacked information on who was exposing him and what that exposure actually was, so I followed your source. That source elaborates as follows: > “In the co…

The charges from Sweden have been dropped and bought several times depending on their usefulness to the Americans it is not a case of the system working as intended. It is a foreign power putting diplomatic pressure on the Swedish government to put pressure on a man who has embarrassed them.

I actively try to avoid anything that look like a conspiracy, but when I read the news that the prosecutor was going to make a statement my first thought was that it would be very convenient for the US if Sweden dropped the case. And then the actually statement came out and they dropped it.