Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

bbc.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

411–420 of 784 posts

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#411

Post by eyko »

DubiousPusher wrote: post #340
ckastner wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You quote: > “Mr. Assange has been deliberately exposed, for a period of several years, to progressively severe forms of cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment, the cumulative effects of which can only be described as psychological torture.“ That quote lacked information on who was exposing him and what that exposure actually was, so I followed your source. That source elaborates as follows: > “In the co…

If she finds his treatment report worthy she should visit almost any county jail in America and write a report. I'm seriously not being flippant. If people genuinely find this kind of treatment disturbing and inhumane then they should know it is befalling daily many of their over 2 million incarcerated American brothers and sisters.

It is my understanding that the USA has been repeatedly admonished for their relationship with torture (prison system, off shore detainment centers, waterboarding, guantanamo, abu ghraib, the recent issues at the border with refugees, etc).

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#412

Post by mcv »

jancsika wrote: post #320
duxup wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find the idea of the threat of prosecution in a free country as a form of "torture" a bit questionable. It's something, but i'm not sure I agree with calling that torture.

> I find the idea of the threat of prosecution in a free country as a form of "torture" a bit questionable. Yeah, it's funny how HN typically goes evidence-free where pet politics is concerned. I'll eat my hat if someone on here can name a single precedent of someone being tortured in the U.S. before being tried for a crime similar to what Assange would be accused of. Edit: and citations, please!

Examples of people being tortured in the US are plenty. It all depends on what you mean by "similar to what Assange would be accused of". He was accused of rape, which is one of the few crimes that the US takes much more lightly than Sweden does.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#413

Post by shadowgovt »

asdernr wrote: post #368
shadowgovt wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would believe he's exhibiting symptoms correlated with torture victims, but most torture victims don't choose to stay in the torture chamber voluntarily. Assange sought and was granted asylum and could have ended the torturous circumstances at any time by rendering himself to UK custody.

Yah. Then get send over to US and A and killed. Checkmate

The saddest thing about Assange's story is that when one lives in the realm of the paranoid for too long, the paranoia eats them.

The US and A isn't in the business of assassinating visible targets. There's plenty of people who believe they are, but there's plenty of evidence they aren't. If they were, Manning wouldn't still be breathing.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#414

Post by dependenttypes »

mariorossi666 wrote: post #369
dependenttypes wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> that's stealing a document in anyone's book. It would certainly be stealing if she deleted the documents in the server afterwards, which she did not. Stealing implies that the original is gone in everyday speech. Most people would be very upset if you stole their car, not so much if you copied it. > I'm simply saying that a military court said that. You might want to edit your previous post then. From "technically…

> It would certainly be stealing if she deleted the documents in the server afterwards, which she did not Again, not a lawyer, not trying to counter you personally, but if someone clones my credit card and take money from it, it is stealing, even if the card is still in my pocket. If someone use my bank's password to transfer funds to his account, it is stealing, even if my account is still in my possess. > "The mili…

> it is stealing

I would disagree (although it is closer to the definition of thieft than stealing data is as you lose the ability to withdraw the money).

> That translates to "technically she stole classified documents and betrayed her country that she swore to protect."

No, it doesn't. The "court" could as well say "the sun rotates around earth and the moon is made out of cheese", it would not make it correct.

> unless we prove the court-martial framed Mannings for something she did not do.

Guilty until proven innocent, eh?

> Saying "the court says that X did that" and "X did that" it's the same thing.

You seem to be putting a lot of trust to the authority of the court. To me the court does not hold any more credibility than anyone else.

> it's not something special to Mannings's case

Not claiming otherwise.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#415

Post by im3w1l »

ttul wrote: post #159
colejohnson66 wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not arguing that the case is unjust. I’m refuting the argument that he was free to leave at any time. I see where the two cross, so I’ll argue the former here: He’s wanted because he embarrassed the United States government. Espionage laws are a horrible attack on free speech and freedom of the press and I’m appalled the Supreme Court previously ruled they’re constitutional.

The espionage act is a horrible piece of legislation. So challenge it. Go fight the charges. Take the spotlight and let everyone see how unjust the law is. Fleeing from the law made Assange seem like a coward, which worked against his cause. There is no better way to seem guilty than to run from a legal process that most people feel is fair, even if you personally think otherwise.

He is not a US citizen. Fighting US laws is neither his right nor obligation.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#416

Post by dingoegret »

duxup wrote: post #134
k1m wrote: post #35

Worth mentioning that Nils Melzer, the UN Special Rapporteur on Torture, visited Assange and described his treatment as psychological torture: > “It was obvious that Mr. Assange’s health has been seriously affected by the extremely hostile and arbitrary environment he has been exposed to for many years,” the expert said. “Most importantly, in addition to physical ailments, Mr. Assange showed all symptoms typical for…

I find the idea of the threat of prosecution in a free country as a form of "torture" a bit questionable. It's something, but i'm not sure I agree with calling that torture.

That's just your world view and western conditioning. I don't know what you mean by "free country" or what that has to do with state actors persecuting another political actor. Help me understand. I don't have the conditioning to read past the slogans and just understand why certain nations are pure.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#417

Post by mariorossi666 »

monocasa wrote: post #333
mariorossi666 wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She wasn't technically a whistleblower, technically she stole classified documents and betrayed her country that she swore to protect. The military have a different way of dealing with justice, especially in U.S. She was in fact sentenced by court-martial not by a regular court.

How did she betray her country? During her trial, the prosecution couldn't actually point to any direct harm.

I don't know why you're asking me, I'm just reporting what the trial was about and what the prosecutors said.

The court ruled against Manning in favour of the prosecutors.

She was "acquitted of the most serious charge, that of aiding the enemy, for giving secrets to WikiLeaks" under the spionage act, which means treason.

If you want an explanation from me, they said that the fact that she stole classified documents regarding national security and gave them to wikileaks, which is foreign to U.S.A., is an act of treason.

The central point is that Manning never denied to taking those documents illegally, at the time she (was still a he) said she wanted to spark public debate on the matter.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#418

Post by tyingq »

boomboomsubban wrote: post #379
DubiousPusher wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If she finds his treatment report worthy she should visit almost any county jail in America and write a report. I'm seriously not being flippant. If people genuinely find this kind of treatment disturbing and inhumane then they should know it is befalling daily many of their over 2 million incarcerated American brothers and sisters.

The United Nations has criticized the US for it's treatment of prisoners in the past, the US just ignores them. It is worth noting that the two million incarcerated are serving sentences for crimes they were convicted of, making it marginally less horrible than Assange's situation.

There are plenty of arrested, but not convicted, prisoners in city and county jails in the US. Often for months or longer.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#419

Post by vintermann »

papito wrote: post #385
counterpig wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The charges from Sweden have been dropped and bought several times depending on their usefulness to the Americans it is not a case of the system working as intended. It is a foreign power putting diplomatic pressure on the Swedish government to put pressure on a man who has embarrassed them.

And in this case, William Barr really doesn't want Assange here, in order to protect his client, Donald J. Trump. And that's why we will not see the extradition to the United States while the Justice Department has been essentially neutered by, what would you call it? Deep State?

I'm more inclined to think Trump's impeachment will be well timed to the date of Assange's extradition. The three letter agencies can live with an erratic president, but not one that might pardon or otherwise protect Assange. (Barr will eventually side with them, not Trump)

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#420

Post by [deleted] »

k1m wrote: post #35

Worth mentioning that Nils Melzer, the UN Special Rapporteur on Torture, visited Assange and described his treatment as psychological torture: > “It was obvious that Mr. Assange’s health has been seriously affected by the extremely hostile and arbitrary environment he has been exposed to for many years,” the expert said. “Most importantly, in addition to physical ailments, Mr. Assange showed all symptoms typical for…

[deleted]
Post reply on HN