Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation • Hacker News Board

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#371

Post by dependenttypes » Tue, Nov 19, 2019, 4:10 PM UTC

mariorossi666 wrote: post #226

dependenttypes wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the "entire intelligence community is deflated Anything that makes the intelligence community deflated is a good thing.

Unless it means that those attacks that the intelligence community prevented will take place.

If I commit a murder I will go to jail, even if I make a magical pill that instantly cures cancer and AIDS. The same sadly does not happen for the intelligence community. They can murder as many innocent people as they want without having to prove their usefulness.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#372

Post by wolco » Tue, Nov 19, 2019, 4:10 PM UTC

ceejayoz wrote: post #116

wolco wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you lose the condom it doesn't make it rape. It makes you a loser who will probably be a social outcast. If you agreed before to kiss for 10 minutes but stop after 5 it doesn't make it rape either. If the person asks you to stop and you refuse that's rape. If she finishes first and asks you to stop and you continue that is rape. But you don't need to have a detailed conversation agreeing to everything beforehand.…

If you agree to "we can have sex if you wear a condom" and then secretly take off the condom, that's rape. The sex being had was not consensual.

If you take that point of view and use a different example it sounds foolish.

If we agree to have sex while she has a blindfold on but only if I wear a clown mask. If I take off the mask before sex and she watches the tape later she cannot claim rape.

Or do you think that's rape as well?

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#373

Post by sooheon » Tue, Nov 19, 2019, 4:10 PM UTC

shadowgovt wrote: post #258

k1m wrote: post #35

Worth mentioning that Nils Melzer, the UN Special Rapporteur on Torture, visited Assange and described his treatment as psychological torture: > “It was obvious that Mr. Assange’s health has been seriously affected by the extremely hostile and arbitrary environment he has been exposed to for many years,” the expert said. “Most importantly, in addition to physical ailments, Mr. Assange showed all symptoms typical for…

I would believe he's exhibiting symptoms correlated with torture victims, but most torture victims don't choose to stay in the torture chamber voluntarily. Assange sought and was granted asylum and could have ended the torturous circumstances at any time by rendering himself to UK custody.

> could have ended the torturous circumstances at any time

By subjecting himself to probably worse injustice. Torture A over torture B is hardly a choice.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#374

Post by lyudmil » Tue, Nov 19, 2019, 4:10 PM UTC

ttul wrote: post #159

colejohnson66 wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not arguing that the case is unjust. I’m refuting the argument that he was free to leave at any time. I see where the two cross, so I’ll argue the former here: He’s wanted because he embarrassed the United States government. Espionage laws are a horrible attack on free speech and freedom of the press and I’m appalled the Supreme Court previously ruled they’re constitutional.

The espionage act is a horrible piece of legislation. So challenge it. Go fight the charges. Take the spotlight and let everyone see how unjust the law is. Fleeing from the law made Assange seem like a coward, which worked against his cause. There is no better way to seem guilty than to run from a legal process that most people feel is fair, even if you personally think otherwise.

Ah, but that's the issue. As currently constructed, the espionage act cannot be challenged in court.

Assange would want to argue that he isn't a spy, but a whistleblower. The argument would be that he willingly broke a law in order to expose more illegal behavior by the government. In order to make that argument, he has to be allowed to talk about what the government does.

Under the espionage act, though, the government can say that the details of their activities are classified, and therefore are not admissable evidence in a public trial. Therefore, their guilt cannot be proven because any claim of illegal behavior could not be backed by evidence.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#375

Post by jcranberry » Tue, Nov 19, 2019, 4:10 PM UTC

shadowgovt wrote: post #310

colejohnson66 wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> handing them over to a foreign organization, and saying "You'll make the best use of this, I trust you" isn't whistleblowing. So Snowden isn’t a whistleblower because he gave them to the Guardian?

There are two answers to that: technical (legal) and moral. Technical (legal): No, clearly not. There's a reason he's hiding from the US justice system in Russia. He didn't follow the legal process for whistleblowing (and he probably should not have). Moral: The major difference between Manning and Snowden's leaks is that Snowden read the documents he forwarded and only collected and forwarded enough to blow the whis…

Snowden took and gave much more than he could possibly have read.

In July 2014, The Washington Post reported on a cache previously provided by Snowden from domestic NSA operations consisting of "roughly 160,000 intercepted e-mail and instant-message conversations, some of them hundreds of pages long, and 7,900 documents taken from more than 11,000 online accounts."

He did not read the 160k emails he provided to the Washington Post.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#376

Post by mcv » Tue, Nov 19, 2019, 4:10 PM UTC

DubiousPusher wrote: post #340

ckastner wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You quote: > “Mr. Assange has been deliberately exposed, for a period of several years, to progressively severe forms of cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment, the cumulative effects of which can only be described as psychological torture.“ That quote lacked information on who was exposing him and what that exposure actually was, so I followed your source. That source elaborates as follows: > “In the co…

If she finds his treatment report worthy she should visit almost any county jail in America and write a report. I'm seriously not being flippant. If people genuinely find this kind of treatment disturbing and inhumane then they should know it is befalling daily many of their over 2 million incarcerated American brothers and sisters.

From what I've heard, the US prison system is indeed inhuman, and torture (solitary isolation, etc) is common. Many people inside and outside the US criticise it and call for reform.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#377

Post by t0ddbonzalez » Tue, Nov 19, 2019, 4:11 PM UTC

k1m wrote: post #35

Worth mentioning that Nils Melzer, the UN Special Rapporteur on Torture, visited Assange and described his treatment as psychological torture: > “It was obvious that Mr. Assange’s health has been seriously affected by the extremely hostile and arbitrary environment he has been exposed to for many years,” the expert said. “Most importantly, in addition to physical ailments, Mr. Assange showed all symptoms typical for…

Nope, sorry. He could have left the embassy any time he wanted. Any 'torture' is purely self-inflicted.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#378

Post by solipsism » Tue, Nov 19, 2019, 4:12 PM UTC

k1m wrote: post #98

sambe wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He could leave the embassy at any time, which is where the purported damage was done. He is now in prison, where he cannot leave it any time. Melzer visited him recently in prison, thus your quote. It seems pretty clear. The parent may be lacking in nuance for his situation, but it is correct.

Melzer was asked about that. He responded: "Mr. Assange was about as free to leave as someone sitting on a rubber boat in a shark pool." - https://twitter.com/NilsMelzer/status/1134400849097220102

You're plastering this thread with the same talking points. People are responding to you. Were you going to address any of the responses, or just keep plastering?

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#379

Post by boomboomsubban » Tue, Nov 19, 2019, 4:12 PM UTC

DubiousPusher wrote: post #340

ckastner wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You quote: > “Mr. Assange has been deliberately exposed, for a period of several years, to progressively severe forms of cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment, the cumulative effects of which can only be described as psychological torture.“ That quote lacked information on who was exposing him and what that exposure actually was, so I followed your source. That source elaborates as follows: > “In the co…

If she finds his treatment report worthy she should visit almost any county jail in America and write a report. I'm seriously not being flippant. If people genuinely find this kind of treatment disturbing and inhumane then they should know it is befalling daily many of their over 2 million incarcerated American brothers and sisters.

The United Nations has criticized the US for it's treatment of prisoners in the past, the US just ignores them. It is worth noting that the two million incarcerated are serving sentences for crimes they were convicted of, making it marginally less horrible than Assange's situation.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#380

Post by sooheon » Tue, Nov 19, 2019, 4:12 PM UTC

ttul wrote: post #159

colejohnson66 wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not arguing that the case is unjust. I’m refuting the argument that he was free to leave at any time. I see where the two cross, so I’ll argue the former here: He’s wanted because he embarrassed the United States government. Espionage laws are a horrible attack on free speech and freedom of the press and I’m appalled the Supreme Court previously ruled they’re constitutional.

The espionage act is a horrible piece of legislation. So challenge it. Go fight the charges. Take the spotlight and let everyone see how unjust the law is. Fleeing from the law made Assange seem like a coward, which worked against his cause. There is no better way to seem guilty than to run from a legal process that most people feel is fair, even if you personally think otherwise.

> So challenge it. Go fight the charges. Take the spotlight and let everyone see how unjust the law is.

Easy to nominate someone else for martyrdom.