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MacBook Pro 16" 2019 Teardown

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Re: MacBook Pro 16" 2019 Teardown

#371

Post by majewsky »

Symbiote wrote: post #324
nikanj wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few blasts of compressed air very likely will fix the keyboard. We have cans of it spread throughout the office, because it took Apple three laptop generations to admit to their faults

Please avoid calling the "gas duster" type cans "compressed air". It's misleading. They usually contain compressed fluorocarbons like difluoroethane. These are toxic chemicals, which are also potent greenhouse gases. Their casual use for cleaning should be discouraged.

What's a good replacement for a casual user who wants to clean their electronics? (Honest question.)

Re: MacBook Pro 16" 2019 Teardown

#372

Post by abrugsch »

w0utert wrote: post #348
Symbiote wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Repairing a device by replacing a small part (preferably only the broken component) uses far less resources than recycling. For most other laptops, repair or replacement of common components doesn't depend so much on the manufacturer. The skill and equipment required to do the repair is significantly reduced. All else being equal, this makes it more likely that the laptop will be repaired rather than discarded.

Not trying to be cynical here because I also would prefer a MBP that was more serviceable/repairable, but all these discussions about how repairability impacts the environmental cost of these devices are IMO extremely contrived. How many (in percentage terms) of laptops will ever need repairs, how many of those will actually be repaired (as opposed to consumers just deciding to buy something new, even if repair would…

Laptops that are decided by their owners are beyond economic repair when something fails don't just get whisked away to landfill, but actually (in many geographic locations) go through actual computer recycling centres, where they are triaged, repaired where possible and re-used in lower socio-economic areas such as low income area training projects etc. Often people "throw away" a laptop just because it's "slow" which usually means malware infested and low tier spinning rust drive, low end CPU, not enough RAM. The CPU has generally been soldered since 5th gen intel core series but upgrades and repairs to the rest can yield perfectly usable machines for some considerable more time. In my region there are numerous recycling projects that do this and one of their sources is the local municipal recycling centre (aka the dump or tip to the locals) where E-Waste is specifically segregated for licenced recyclers to handle.

If you have devices that have "simple" faults (bad RAM,storage,wifi card etc) that would normally be a simple swap out, but now can only be repaired with a high degree of skill (micro soldering) and access to a parts supply which is intentionally restricted and knowledge which intentionally obfuscated (take you pick of Louis Rossman repair videos on youtube)then those products will skip this second life and head straight to material recovery rather than re-use. so >How many (in percentage terms) of laptops will ever need repairs as long as it's non zero then it's irrelevant >how many of those will actually be repaired For apple products this is rapidly approaching actual zero while for others it's non-zero

Re: MacBook Pro 16" 2019 Teardown

#373

Post by rswail »

petepete wrote: post #235
hw wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have had my mid-2012 RMBP since 2012 and I haven't had to repair it yet (I might be an outlier). I'm hoping to trade in my 2012 and get the 16" and have it last another 7 years.

Mine's a 2013 model and I'm in the same boat. My X1 Carbon is being delivered today, the Mac put in a good shift but it's frozen a couple of times since the upgrade to a Catalina. Until the last month it's been perfect. I'll still use it for Affinity and Capture One, but as a contractor I need something I feel I can depend on.

Hang on, it's been perfect until you upgraded to Catalina? A release that is notoriously buggy?

Why not downgrade back to Mojave?

Re: MacBook Pro 16" 2019 Teardown

#374

Post by meerita »

I dropped a beer in my 2017 model, and i screwed up all the spacebar, and the command and option keys in one side. They were really hard to use until some days ago they started working. The prior models were better for maintenance and resistant to these abuses with liquids.

Re: MacBook Pro 16" 2019 Teardown

#375

Post by kmlx »

GrayShade wrote: post #358
kmlx wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

so basically the problem is offering cheaper repairs? that should be relatively easy to solve, no?

Repairs are going to be expensive if you need to get a new motherboard to replace a single component.

it all depends on second hand mac component prices. from my knowledge apple changes the casing and motherboard for almost every mac hardware update. thus making components more expensive (lower runs) and the re-sell value high. so for apple to allow replacing parts the backlash from a reduced re-sell price would need to be lower than the potential new avenues of 3rd party components and repairs.

Re: MacBook Pro 16" 2019 Teardown

#376

Post by joeberon »

usaphp wrote: post #240
grapehut wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The complaint (or at least, mine) isn't that they're bad -- it's that they're unreliable. I'm literally on my 3rd butterfly keyboard.

I am starting to think that it’s more to do with how people type, rather then a keyboard quality. Most people who get them break - go through 3-4 keyboards in a year. I am still using my 2017 butterfly and have not had a single issue with a keyboard. So it’s either 0 or 3+ replacements

One thing I found is that the reliability issues are usually quite fleeting. I have the feeling that a lot of the people who are experiencing issues are going to the Apple store straight away to get it fixed. I've had a few issues: 5 key stopped working properly, space stopped working properly a couple times, same for f key, where by properly I meant it needed more effort to get the keypress out, however every time the issue resolved itself in 2 or 3 days of use (presumably by the typing breaking up whatever dust had gotten itself under there)

They are definitely unreliable and shouldn't break so easy, but every issue I've had has resolved itself

Re: MacBook Pro 16" 2019 Teardown

#377

Post by lrem »

lm28469 wrote: post #353
simonh wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only a tiny percentage of laptops are ever upgraded. If making the device upgradable and accessible adds the same percentage in materials then it's pretty much a wash. Also Apple devices on average have much longer service lives than devices from most other manufacturers. On average they stay usable longer, and even when they are replaced they're more likely to be handed on and keep in use even without upgradability.…

> Only a tiny percentage of laptops are ever upgraded. What about batteries, they're basically consumables. I still remember a friend of mine breaking a single usb port on his macbook, he had to change half the components, the bill was something like $1.5k for a $2k macbook.

My 2013 13" is still at over 80% design battery capacity.

Re: MacBook Pro 16" 2019 Teardown

#378

Post by aledthemathguy »

IAmEveryone wrote: post #285
jonny383 wrote: post #170

Seriously, fuck off, Apple. Gluing and rivets - does this actually accomplish any kind of real measurable cost-saving or just introduce bullshit vendor lock-in? Same deal for soldered RAM. Pro-tip for everyone wanting to LEAVE Tim Cook's sinking hardware ship: Buy a Dell XPS 15, install Linux and enjoy being able to: 1. Upgrade your own RAM 2. Install a second 2.5" SSD 3. Being able to easily remove components from t…

If you're "switching wireless cards" you're using computers as a toy. Wireless just works, these days. And if it doesn't, whatever Apple decided to put in MacBook is unlikely to be the culprit. If you consider recompiling kernels and and overclocking your caps lock LEDs to be fun that's fine, but don't delude yourself into thinking it has anything to do with productive work or professionalism.

>>>> "overclocking your caps lock LEDs"

I LOLD!

Re: MacBook Pro 16" 2019 Teardown

#379

Post by munmaek »

jonny383 wrote: post #296
IAmEveryone wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're "switching wireless cards" you're using computers as a toy. Wireless just works, these days. And if it doesn't, whatever Apple decided to put in MacBook is unlikely to be the culprit. If you consider recompiling kernels and and overclocking your caps lock LEDs to be fun that's fine, but don't delude yourself into thinking it has anything to do with productive work or professionalism.

Wireless, fair enough. But are you really ignorant enough to think it's not productive to 1. Buy a stick of RAM / new or bigger SSD from your provider of choice online 2. Open the delivery package and install it in your computer in 3 minutes And get another three years out of your device? Or how about, when your Macbook breaks and you need to take it to a genius bar only to have them tell you that you need to order e…

"are you really ignorant enough to"

"it's because of people like you"

That's certainly one way to get people to immediately stop listening to you. Parent merely was talking about the wireless cards.

Re: MacBook Pro 16" 2019 Teardown

#380

Post by _ph_ »

kmlx wrote: post #334
_ph_ wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After Apple care expires, many repairs are so expensive that you have to consider the MB totalled, that means, you are throwing away a device that should be repairable. A keyboard exchange should cost between $100 and $200, not in excess of $600.

so basically the problem is offering cheaper repairs? that should be relatively easy to solve, no?

That depends on Apple. If they are willing to repair a keyboard for like $150 and a broken SSD for what the SSD prices are going for at that time, at least the customers wouldn't be harmed by these design decisions. If Apple then would reuse the additional changed parts, then even the environment would benefit. But right now, all the burdon is on the customer and the environment.
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