Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Havana celebrates 500 years of foundation

bbc.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 46 posts

Re: Havana celebrates 500 years of foundation

#21

Post by leereeves »

selestify wrote: post #14
jariel wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no 'blockade' of Cuba, they are free to trade with the other 186 or so nations on planet earth, and can buy/sell most American goods via other destinations. They are a member of the WTO (!!) Since commodity markets are fungible there isn't a huge reason for sugar to be seriously devalued. It's hard to 'blame America' for the totalitarian rule of Castro Inc. in Cuba, this subject makes me wonder deeply about…

That is simply not true — see the 180 day rule that prevents any ship docking in Cuba from entering US ports for the next 180 days. It’s not like the rest of the world is just free to trade with Cuba without repercussions from the US, and given the much smaller Cuban market, it’s not surprising that many operators would rather avoid the trouble of unloading cargo there. The revolution has done pretty remarkably well…

There was a whole potential trading block of nations with similar government systems that could trade with Cuba, but none of them had much to trade until they embraced some form of capitalism.

Re: Havana celebrates 500 years of foundation

#22

Post by osmay88 »

dm3730 wrote: post #16

500 years of foundation? I guess the history of the Mesoamericans who lived there prior to their genocide by the Europeans isn't available?

I recommend you to read history. There was no genocide in Cuba. Some people people die from sickness brought by Europeans and right after the discovery the Queen of Spain at the time ruled that the native couldn't be enslaved. So the ones who didn't die were simply blend into society.

Btw I'm Cuban myself.

Re: Havana celebrates 500 years of foundation

#23

Post by dm3730 »

osmay88 wrote: post #22
dm3730 wrote: post #16

500 years of foundation? I guess the history of the Mesoamericans who lived there prior to their genocide by the Europeans isn't available?

I recommend you to read history. There was no genocide in Cuba. Some people people die from sickness brought by Europeans and right after the discovery the Queen of Spain at the time ruled that the native couldn't be enslaved. So the ones who didn't die were simply blend into society. Btw I'm Cuban myself.

> I recommend you to read history. There was no genocide in Cuba

Perhaps your history is written by Spaniards. I notice you didn't give any specific books to read. I'll do you a favour. Here's one: https://www.amazon.com/Brevisima-relacion-destruicion-Humani... The cover is "A 16th-century illustration by Flemish Protestant Theodor de Bry for Las Casas's Brevisima relación de la destrucción de las Indias, depicting Spanish atrocities during the conquest of Cuba"

Re: Havana celebrates 500 years of foundation

#24

Post by dm3730 »

iguy wrote: post #17
dm3730 wrote: post #16

500 years of foundation? I guess the history of the Mesoamericans who lived there prior to their genocide by the Europeans isn't available?

They didn't found a city called Havana, that's all.

You clearly missed my point. But that's okay since I presume your intentions and support of colonialization is clear.

Re: Havana celebrates 500 years of foundation

#25

Post by iguy »

dm3730 wrote: post #24
iguy wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They didn't found a city called Havana, that's all.

You clearly missed my point. But that's okay since I presume your intentions and support of colonialization is clear.

This may surprise you, but I wasn't around in the 16th century to either support or oppose anyone's actions, let alone their intentions.

Re: Havana celebrates 500 years of foundation

#26

Post by docdeek »

blondin wrote: post #9
jariel wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are the oldest 'Western' cities in the colonial New World. They were established just after 'contact', just as Byzantine (i.e. E. Roman Empire) finally fell to the Ottomans, at the dawn of the Reformation, before the Enlightenment ... just at the very start of the 'modern period' in Europe. To give some context, Napoleon was 100 years closer to 'our time' than he was to 'that time'. The last English king to die…

but... since you mentioned the french, isn't french cities like paris more than thousands of years old. thanks for replying though, i was just curious why havana is suddenly singled out because it seems still a young city.

Old for a colonial city, but you're right that French cities (for example) are far older. My own city [0] is closing in on its 2000 year anniversary - should be a big celebration when it comes around in about 20 years.

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyon#History_of_Lyon

Re: Havana celebrates 500 years of foundation

#27

Post by dsign »

selestify wrote: post #14
jariel wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no 'blockade' of Cuba, they are free to trade with the other 186 or so nations on planet earth, and can buy/sell most American goods via other destinations. They are a member of the WTO (!!) Since commodity markets are fungible there isn't a huge reason for sugar to be seriously devalued. It's hard to 'blame America' for the totalitarian rule of Castro Inc. in Cuba, this subject makes me wonder deeply about…

That is simply not true — see the 180 day rule that prevents any ship docking in Cuba from entering US ports for the next 180 days. It’s not like the rest of the world is just free to trade with Cuba without repercussions from the US, and given the much smaller Cuban market, it’s not surprising that many operators would rather avoid the trouble of unloading cargo there. The revolution has done pretty remarkably well…

It is true. Just try to take about anything into the country which is not for personal use, and you will see it confiscated by Cuba's customs. Only a handful of entities strongly affiliated with the Cuban government can import goods for commerce in Cuba. You can check it here: https://www.nordeatrade.com/en/explore-new-market/cuba/custo... under the "Import Procedures" paragraph.

Re: Havana celebrates 500 years of foundation

#28

Post by Darmody »

dm3730 wrote: post #23
osmay88 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recommend you to read history. There was no genocide in Cuba. Some people people die from sickness brought by Europeans and right after the discovery the Queen of Spain at the time ruled that the native couldn't be enslaved. So the ones who didn't die were simply blend into society. Btw I'm Cuban myself.

> I recommend you to read history. There was no genocide in Cuba Perhaps your history is written by Spaniards. I notice you didn't give any specific books to read. I'll do you a favour. Here's one: https://www.amazon.com/Brevisima-relacion-destruicion-Humani... The cover is "A 16th-century illustration by Flemish Protestant Theodor de Bry for Las Casas's Brevisima relación de la destrucción de las Indias, depicting S…

I'm sorry but you're absolutely wrong.

While some atrocities did happen there was no genocide at all. That's why the old Spanish Empire in America is full of indigenous and mixed people. In coutrines like Bolivia the indigenous population is like 80%. How's that possible with?

500 years ago the Spanish crown forbid by slavery and declared that all indigenous people had the same rights as anyone. They also encouraged mixed marriages, something that wasn't allowed in the US until the 60's if I'm not mistaken.

I could tell you also how the some Mexican tribes allied with around 600 Spaniards to overthrow the Aztec Empire because they were the slaughters. Or how Blas de Lezo defended Cartagena de Indias from the British and saved thousand of indigenous which would've died in hands of the attackers.

That's why you can find 500 year old Spanish cities and universities in America.

I won't judge actions made 500 ago by today's standards but I won't throw unfunded accusations either.

Re: Havana celebrates 500 years of foundation

#29

Post by throw51319 »

dm3730 wrote: post #16

500 years of foundation? I guess the history of the Mesoamericans who lived there prior to their genocide by the Europeans isn't available?

Dude the history of humans is brutal. The only way societies consolidated and culture formed is through the battles and conquers of the past. We're now at a point where we have the prescience to not repeat the past. But just respect that that is how you yourself are alive on this planet. Your ancestors killed and conquered the resources of others, and that's how they propagated to get to you. It's foolish to believe otherwise.

Re: Havana celebrates 500 years of foundation

#30

Post by AwesomeFaic »

Just spent a long weekend in Havana with my fiance, it's a fantastic place to visit. As an American, super surreal visit. https://wanderandponder.com/2019/11/04/a-weekend-in-cuba/

If you're into art, keep an eye on the contemporary Cuban art scene. Got to see some really impressive pieces during our visit.

Post reply on HN