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Uber Hit with $650M Employment Tax Bill in New Jersey

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Re: Uber Hit with $650M Employment Tax Bill in New Jersey

#271

Post by pitaj »

erikpukinskis wrote: post #204
pitaj wrote: post #53

Please don't quote with code blocks. It breaks formatting by forcing horizontal scrolling, and is especially bad on mobile. Requoted: > Employee and employer state Unemployment Insurance tax rates will apply to the first $34,400 of an employee’s earnings in 2019 (up from $33,700 in 2018). For 2019, employees are subject to a 0.0425% (.000425) Workforce Development Partnership Fund tax rate. The employee Unemployment…

It looks fine on my mobile device (iPhone). Maybe file a bug with your device maker?

He edited his comment

Re: Uber Hit with $650M Employment Tax Bill in New Jersey

#272

Post by rayiner »

vkou wrote: post #267
toomuchtodo wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it possible to sue pension plans to force them to assume a more realistic rate of return? To do otherwise is to allow a fraud to continue (overinflated return estimates, causing even further insolvency in the future when those returns don't materialize).

Most of them have adjusted the expectations for returns for any new participants. Reducing expectations for existing participants is the same as defaulting on a loan, and I see no reason for why pensioners should be getting haircuts, while lenders get every penny they are owed.

Two reason:

1) Pensioner debt in Illinois is about $250 billion, versus $65 billion for other kinds of debt. Any debt restructuring will necessarily have to see pensioners carry most of the water.

2) Defaulting on loans makes it very difficult to access the capital markets for things current and future residents need. (Long term bonds to pay for transit projects, etc.) Cutting pension obligations doesn’t have that problem.

Re: Uber Hit with $650M Employment Tax Bill in New Jersey

#273

Post by vkou »

rayiner wrote: post #272
vkou wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of them have adjusted the expectations for returns for any new participants. Reducing expectations for existing participants is the same as defaulting on a loan, and I see no reason for why pensioners should be getting haircuts, while lenders get every penny they are owed.

Two reason: 1) Pensioner debt in Illinois is about $250 billion, versus $65 billion for other kinds of debt. Any debt restructuring will necessarily have to see pensioners carry most of the water. 2) Defaulting on loans makes it very difficult to access the capital markets for things current and future residents need. (Long term bonds to pay for transit projects, etc.) Cutting pension obligations doesn’t have that pr…

> 1) Pensioner debt in Illinois is about $250 billion, versus $65 billion for other kinds of debt. Any debt restructuring will necessarily have to see pensioners carry most of the water.

So make both pensioners, and lenders share the pain. Don't just dump all the problems onto one or the other. It was the lender's fault for not taking into account the possibility of default of a creditor with large outstanding financial obligations.

Re: Uber Hit with $650M Employment Tax Bill in New Jersey

#274

Post by danans »

Consultant32452 wrote: post #238
danans wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If ridesharing is so bad then govt should invest in proper public transport to create more choice This is an excellent idea, and is consistent with also taxing any societally borne externalities caused by ride-sharing, the primary being congestion. And taxis should be held to the same regulatory standard.

The externalities of driving should be and largely are paid for by fuel and plate taxes, and also tolls. If those things need to be adjusted, then adjust them. But it doesn't make sense to me to particularly punish rideshare miles driven compared to commuter miles driven.

> But it doesn't make sense to me to particularly punish rideshare miles driven compared to commuter miles driven.

I agree. We should be making it more expensive to operate any low-occupancy vehicle during peak congestion hours in congested areas, not just ride-shares.

Re: Uber Hit with $650M Employment Tax Bill in New Jersey

#275

Post by JamesBarney »

vkou wrote: post #273
rayiner wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two reason: 1) Pensioner debt in Illinois is about $250 billion, versus $65 billion for other kinds of debt. Any debt restructuring will necessarily have to see pensioners carry most of the water. 2) Defaulting on loans makes it very difficult to access the capital markets for things current and future residents need. (Long term bonds to pay for transit projects, etc.) Cutting pension obligations doesn’t have that pr…

> 1) Pensioner debt in Illinois is about $250 billion, versus $65 billion for other kinds of debt. Any debt restructuring will necessarily have to see pensioners carry most of the water. So make both pensioners, and lenders share the pain. Don't just dump all the problems onto one or the other. It was the lender's fault for not taking into account the possibility of default of a creditor with large outstanding financ…

His point is if you make the lenders take a haircut you end up having to pay much higher interest rates when you borrow. Just like how if I default on my credit card, my next one will have a much higher interest rate.

Re: Uber Hit with $650M Employment Tax Bill in New Jersey

#276

Post by rchaud »

bandrami wrote: post #253
memmcgee wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? How are you arriving at that conclusion?

"Sorry, I don't go east of the river" "Sorry, the meter is broken" "Sorry, the card reader is broken, cash only" "No, don't worry, this is really the fastest way" Also your Uber driver doesn't know your race when he accepts your ride or not. Which is probably why I find it a lot easier to get an Uber than a taxi.

> Also your Uber driver doesn't know your race when he accepts your ride or not. Which is probably why I find it a lot easier to get an Uber than a taxi.

Not being able to hail a cab due to racist drivers is a problem. However, in your example, the Uber driven can see your name, which is a pretty reliable proxy for your race, unless it's highly generic like John Smith or something.

Taxi drivers have to accept cash and cannot force you to pre-pay for your ride like Uber can. That at least reduces the number of drivers who would otherwise refuse to pick you up because of a perception that you wouldn't pay.

Re: Uber Hit with $650M Employment Tax Bill in New Jersey

#277

Post by Consultant32452 »

danans wrote: post #274
Consultant32452 wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The externalities of driving should be and largely are paid for by fuel and plate taxes, and also tolls. If those things need to be adjusted, then adjust them. But it doesn't make sense to me to particularly punish rideshare miles driven compared to commuter miles driven.

> But it doesn't make sense to me to particularly punish rideshare miles driven compared to commuter miles driven. I agree. We should be making it more expensive to operate any low-occupancy vehicle during peak congestion hours in congested areas, not just ride-shares.

All of those taxes are already per vehicle. The license plate tax is per vehicle. The tax paid on a gallon of gas is per vehicle. Tolls are per vehicle. There is already an embedded penalty for low occupancy because the costs are spread across fewer people. Fighting congestion is already a major cost: time. Who are you trying to decongest the roads for? How will you avoid creating a situation where only the wealthy are allowed to drive, and now all you've accomplished is making their driving experience more pleasant?

Re: Uber Hit with $650M Employment Tax Bill in New Jersey

#278

Post by bprosnitz »

turc1656 wrote: post #95
jdhn wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure why people think that drivers for Uber & Lyft shouldn't be treated as "contractors". I know I'm in the minority on this, but to me it seems that you can jump in and out of employment with Uber & Lyft quite easily, to the point that it does seem more like contract work. As an anecdote, I took a Lyft to the airport with someone who had stopped driving for 6 months in order to get started with a new full ti…

In my book, if you can't determine the price for your service, you aren't a contractor, pure and simple. Uber determines the rates, sets their fees, supplies the clients, and has rules about how many times you can skip/pass on choosing to accept a fare. Uber basically controls every aspect of the entire process but let's people choose when they want to work. That "benefit" is thrown out to drivers so that Uber can tr…

I used to teach snowboarding as a contractor and had no choice over the price of my services. The resort set the price and I had to either accept or not work with them.

Re: Uber Hit with $650M Employment Tax Bill in New Jersey

#279

Post by rsj_hn »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #260
rsj_hn wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Japan has a completely different pension system which is extremely conservative. It's a two tier system, the first government funded, and of course the Japanese government is in enormous debt, but not because of pensions. The government funded pension is like welfare, it's very small, is fixed in amount for everyone, and funded by contributions. It would be what social security is if the amount was tiny -- say $200 p…

Thanks! So does that mean the average retired Japanese person is living on less than $1k per month?? How are they doing that? Isn't Japan pretty Urban and the cities relatively expensive to live in?

You would be surprised at how low wages are in Japan and how frugal people are to save to supplement their employer pensions. You would also be surprised at how many poor people there are in Japan. The stereotypical wealthy Japanese salaryman has pretty low salaries by American standards. There are also homeless people in Tokyo who sleep quietly in the streets and then clean up after themselves, disappearing completely from sight so you wouldn't know there was an encampment there. There was one famous case of an older person starving in Japan. He had a very touching diary where he wrote he dreamed of eating just one rice ball. He went to the unemployment office but they turned him down.(source: https://asiancorrespondent.com/2012/02/starving-to-death-in-...)

In Japan 2/3 of the average person's retirement income is pension benefits and 1/3 is savings, so Japanese augment their frugal pensions by saving a lot. Even so, 1 in 6 Japanese live in poverty, and 1 in 5 seniors live in poverty, suggesting that the low pensions play a role and that some Japanese are suffering because of this (https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2019/06/04/business/financ...)

In terms of Japan being expensive to live in, it depends on your lifestyle. You can certainly spend a lot of money in Japan, but the median household income in Japan is about 40K (source: http://nbakki.hatenablog.com/entry/Distribution_of_Yearly_Ho.... more salary breakdowns here: https://resources.realestate.co.jp/living/average-salary-jap...) so assuming 2 people, that's about $1700/month per person, so a pension of $1000/month is completely unsurprising.

Private consumption in Japan, as a share of GDP, is about 10% less than in the U.S. E.g. they consume about 57% of GDP and we consume about 67% of GDP. This includes consumption of fixed capital. If you back that out, the median Japanese household is just much more frugal than the median US household, and it's not all increased out of pocket healthcare spending (source: https://www.bls.gov/opub/btn/volume-6/how-do-united-states-c...). They really are more frugal and more risk averse than US households.

Re: Uber Hit with $650M Employment Tax Bill in New Jersey

#280

Post by bamboozled »

manigandham wrote: post #220
bamboozled wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are some crap Taxi's in Tokyo, but on average they're amazing. I'm sure there is still regulation and taxes they need to pay in Japan too. It's not just because they're Taxis they suck. There is also bad Uber drivers too.

Why are they amazing? Japan has great public transportation and very dense cities. It's not as car-centric as the US but the taxi system still has similar problems. No apps, need to communicate destination (possibly in a foreign language), primarily use cash, expensive, paper receipts, no real-time status/tracking, hard to get back lost items, etc. They might be cleaner and quieter but those are minor details.

No apps

Wrong: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/japantaxi/id481647073

Need to communicate destination.

Not with the app.

Primarily use cash

Wrong, you can pay by many means, including the IC card, this is a good option and can be used with Apple wallet, super convenient.

Expensive

Compared to what?

Paper receipts

Not when using the app, you can just say you don't want a receipt.

No real-time status tracking

Wrong, the app does this too.

Hard to get back lost items

Call taxi company, get it back? Tokyo taxi drivers usually inspect the taxi before you get out too, I notice they do this every time I get a cab.

Another benefit IMO is there are cabs driving around everywhere, you don't have to hail and wait for a cab, if it starts raining, you can just jump into a cab usually in under a minute.

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