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Uber Hit with $650M Employment Tax Bill in New Jersey

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Re: Uber Hit with $650M Employment Tax Bill in New Jersey

#41

Post by jdhn »

Accujack wrote: post #8
jdhn wrote: post #3

If the state wins, I wouldn't be surprised if Lyft and Uber pulled out, or at least increased their fares by a substantial amount.

Closing the loophole in the law that lets them treat workers as "contractors" rather than employees is going to torpedo their whole business model.

I'm not sure why people think that drivers for Uber & Lyft shouldn't be treated as "contractors". I know I'm in the minority on this, but to me it seems that you can jump in and out of employment with Uber & Lyft quite easily, to the point that it does seem more like contract work.

As an anecdote, I took a Lyft to the airport with someone who had stopped driving for 6 months in order to get started with a new full time job, and had just started driving again to pick up a little more cash on the side. No full time employer would tolerate a 6 month break to start up another job, and then allow you to come back.

Re: Uber Hit with $650M Employment Tax Bill in New Jersey

#42

Post by vidanay »

akersten wrote: post #33
nemo44x wrote: post #24

There's no escaping this from states like NJ, CA, IL, MA, and NY. These states (of which I am a member of) are broke with pension obligations waiting to bankrupt the government. Taxes are already high both on income and property so there's nowhere to go there. They have old infrastructures and although the citizens are heavily taxed, government can't make improvements in large part because of lifetime pension obligat…

Do you have some numbers to share to support the hypothesis that pension plans will bankrupt these states without new taxes?

It's almost impossible for Illinois to raise new taxes. People are already fleeing the state at an impressive rate, and any tax increase will only amplify the death spiral.

We will be leaving in approx six months after having lived here for all my 48 years.

Re: Uber Hit with $650M Employment Tax Bill in New Jersey

#43

Post by goatinaboat »

Shivetya wrote: post #34
toomuchtodo wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Proof that voting works (IMHO). Local residents won against a distant corporate entity.

well preying on ignorance is the game of politicians and they won. Yes I am saying it was a loss for the rest of us. why? politicians and their allies successfully portrayed the home sharing industry as the reason for rising rents when in fact it has long been because politicians and those using their connections which have been the cause. oh they hide it well but the idea is to keep their investments up and keep "th…

home sharing industry

Is it “sharing” or is it “industry”? It can’t be both.

Re: Uber Hit with $650M Employment Tax Bill in New Jersey

#44

Post by kapuasuite »

navigatr wrote: post #4

Jersey City just had a public referendum on short-term rentals that AirBnB spent millions of dollars lobbying against. It's good to see that the both the public and its elected officials are coming up to speed on the realities companies like Uber and AirBnb force upon them by skirting the law.

These are the same elected officials who let taxi companies rip off passengers for the better part of a century by limiting competition through the medallion system, and protect hotel interests because they’ve been able to tack a ton of extra taxes onto every hotel bill?

Re: Uber Hit with $650M Employment Tax Bill in New Jersey

#45

Post by navigatr »

Shivetya wrote: post #34
toomuchtodo wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Proof that voting works (IMHO). Local residents won against a distant corporate entity.

well preying on ignorance is the game of politicians and they won. Yes I am saying it was a loss for the rest of us. why? politicians and their allies successfully portrayed the home sharing industry as the reason for rising rents when in fact it has long been because politicians and those using their connections which have been the cause. oh they hide it well but the idea is to keep their investments up and keep "th…

You can blame some conspiracy theory involving politicians colluding to trick their constituents, or you can listen to the lived experiences of residents in Jersey City that have to live next to nuisance short-term rentals.

Parties all night during the week, drunk people trying to enter the wrong apartments at 3AM, arguments between loud tourists in your once quiet building, and somehow sleeping 10 people in a two bedroom apartment.

I don't blame residents for not wanting to live and work around that everyday. Most people don't want to live in flop houses.

Re: Uber Hit with $650M Employment Tax Bill in New Jersey

#46

Post by cpascal »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #7
navigatr wrote: post #4

Jersey City just had a public referendum on short-term rentals that AirBnB spent millions of dollars lobbying against. It's good to see that the both the public and its elected officials are coming up to speed on the realities companies like Uber and AirBnb force upon them by skirting the law.

> Jersey City just had a public referendum on short-term rentals that AirBnB spent millions of dollars lobbying against. Lobbied against and still lost by an enormous margin (70 percent of voters supported the new regulation). https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/05/nyregion/airbnb-jersey-ci... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21459486

The official election results put it at 86% (46,062) in favor of the regulations (voted 'Yes' for public question #1).

Even more interesting is the number of 'No' votes (7,416) is less than the number of signatures on the petition that forced the ordinance into a public referendum (~20,000 with ~9,000 certified).

https://results.enr.clarityelections.com/NJ/Hudson/98893/Web...

https://www.nj.com/hudson/2019/08/referendum-on-airbnb-regul...

Re: Uber Hit with $650M Employment Tax Bill in New Jersey

#47

Post by [deleted] »

kapuasuite wrote: post #44
navigatr wrote: post #4

Jersey City just had a public referendum on short-term rentals that AirBnB spent millions of dollars lobbying against. It's good to see that the both the public and its elected officials are coming up to speed on the realities companies like Uber and AirBnb force upon them by skirting the law.

These are the same elected officials who let taxi companies rip off passengers for the better part of a century by limiting competition through the medallion system, and protect hotel interests because they’ve been able to tack a ton of extra taxes onto every hotel bill?

[deleted]

Re: Uber Hit with $650M Employment Tax Bill in New Jersey

#48

Post by bluecalm »

navigatr wrote: post #4

Jersey City just had a public referendum on short-term rentals that AirBnB spent millions of dollars lobbying against. It's good to see that the both the public and its elected officials are coming up to speed on the realities companies like Uber and AirBnb force upon them by skirting the law.

The difference is that AirBnB makes lives of the neighbors much worse. Is a parasitic business model. Uber just allows for deals between drivers and customers which a lot of people like. Let's have referendum on Uber and see what the results are before lumping those companies together.

Re: Uber Hit with $650M Employment Tax Bill in New Jersey

#49

Post by 8note »

jdhn wrote: post #41
Accujack wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Closing the loophole in the law that lets them treat workers as "contractors" rather than employees is going to torpedo their whole business model.

I'm not sure why people think that drivers for Uber & Lyft shouldn't be treated as "contractors". I know I'm in the minority on this, but to me it seems that you can jump in and out of employment with Uber & Lyft quite easily, to the point that it does seem more like contract work. As an anecdote, I took a Lyft to the airport with someone who had stopped driving for 6 months in order to get started with a new full ti…

My current full time employer would be fine with that -- specifically withing 6 months, I'd keep my RSU grants too

Re: Uber Hit with $650M Employment Tax Bill in New Jersey

#50

Post by navigatr »

kapuasuite wrote: post #44
navigatr wrote: post #4

Jersey City just had a public referendum on short-term rentals that AirBnB spent millions of dollars lobbying against. It's good to see that the both the public and its elected officials are coming up to speed on the realities companies like Uber and AirBnb force upon them by skirting the law.

These are the same elected officials who let taxi companies rip off passengers for the better part of a century by limiting competition through the medallion system, and protect hotel interests because they’ve been able to tack a ton of extra taxes onto every hotel bill?

These talking points died in 2016. Now that Uber isn't subsidizing rides with investor's money and raised their fares, Uber is actually more expensive than taxis in NJ.

There's no reason ride hailing companies need to violate labor laws to do business.

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