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Google cancels TGIF weekly all-hands meetings

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Re: Google cancels TGIF weekly all-hands meetings

#171
post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not anymore. US left has stretched very far to the left in the last few years while the right has moved slightly more to the right. It's created a whole new "center". Here's Pew research, check page 12: http://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/201...

Thanks, the paper looks interesting! Though I wouldn't call it "very far". Solidarity peak is the same as it was around 2008 (the Great Financial Crises I guess), regulation and waste views are interestingly conflicting, the anti-corporatism shift is happening across all cohorts, so again it doesn't seem like the Dems are going that much more left. The views of immigration are very polarized. That's interesting, and…

Here's more from the Economist, check the chart: https://www.economist.com/united-states/2018/09/20/far-left-...

Re: Google cancels TGIF weekly all-hands meetings

#172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously nothing is absolute, that doesn't make anything contradictory. The majority political stance is left/far-left. The company is massive and sometimes will do things people consider right-wing, but usually those things are not actually "right-wing" but just normal behavior of a giant corporation seeking to maximize profit and shareholder value. Corporations and capitalism are not antithetical to left-wing poli…

You just linked 'diversity' to left and far-left, isn't that the same thing that started this side thread? How is that site linked with activism or left politics? You mentioned a "pretty clear" connection. I could just as easily say it's a decision for the economics of the company and you're projecting your own politics into that, confusing capitalism with left/right? But you know your example is a political decision…

"Diversity" based on identity politics and physical characteristics (race, gender, skin color) is a left-wing position. Hiring the best people for the job is a universal capitalistic non-political position.

Is your counter argument that this "diversity" is also part of the right-wing party?

Re: Google cancels TGIF weekly all-hands meetings

#173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

[flagged]

bitwize said that, after Trump's election, a lot of stuff got labeled "far right" that never was before.

You replied that bitwize was supporting white nationalists and repeating a propaganda narrative.

Hmm... I'd say you just proved bitwize's point.

Re: Google cancels TGIF weekly all-hands meetings

#174
This is so sad on many levels. I first saw this article on HN and then went back to search my mail folder in disbelief (I hadn't seen an internal memo about this.) TGIF used to be a wonderful forum to communicate with leadership and enjoy our latest and greatest achievements.

Re: Google cancels TGIF weekly all-hands meetings

#175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except if they're a leftist, liberal type, of course. Or even an adherent of a "preferred" or "protected" religion. These get to say racist, sexist, homophobic things all day long, and none of their fellow activists would bat an eye.

To your point, the left's treatment of Trudeau's blackface is an interesting case study.

The left was pretty damn upset about the blackface scandal.

The Liberals are a _centrist_ party, not a leftist one. That's the NDP.

Re: Google cancels TGIF weekly all-hands meetings

#176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, should people who are inherently political, say gay, trans, or non-binary folk not exist in the workplace?

Fine, I'll bite. Is idea that expecting you not to berate your coworkers about your pet political issue is erasure? If so, then yes. I'm not willing to work with anyone who doesn't assume that I'm interacting with them on a good-faith basis by default. If your only tool for examining the motivations of outsider-groups is bigotry and bias, then all you will find is bigotry and bias.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.

> Is idea that expecting you not to berate your coworkers about your pet political issue is erasure?

No, the idea is that being trans in the workplace can lead to discrimination, and I've seen people use the excuse that identifying as trans is political to tell trans people they can't use preferred pronouns or use a preferred restroom or like wear what they want to work.

That's bigotry and bias under the guise of apolitical-ness, no matter what you're looking for.

Re: Google cancels TGIF weekly all-hands meetings

#177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pointing out the inherent privilege-preserving effects of discouraging challenge to the status quo is not adding an incendiary meaning. It's lifting a latent consequence to the level of manifest evidence. This understandably makes some people uncomfortable. It challenges beliefs, it challenges self-worth, it challenges value systems, it challenges worldviews. None of these invalidate the underlying concept that shelt…

If we work together, you should assume good faith. We are all on the same team at work. That's the point.

Wouldn't an assumption of good faith presume a capacity for frank discussion?

Oddly enough, I'm debating (on Mastodon) against the notion that a Single Global Authority defined as "suitably free", supported through taxes, would be a prefered / acceptable alternative to present private Internet service provisioning.

I agree with most of the sentiment, particularly public subsidy of comms capabilities. The concern is that it's not possibly to simply define a thing as "suitably free", you've got to work in a real world, in which definitions don't simply instantiate themselves, in which adversaries may take control of critical regulatory bodies (I pointed out that One Geopolitical Party with interests Significantly Opposed to Another has in recent history held the chair of the UN Human Rights Commission, where the UN was the proposed Internet provisioning entity).

Similarly: you can't simply declare by definition or fiat that we're all on the same team. For multiple parties' interests to be fairly represented and addressed, there must be some mechanism for representing and addressing those concerns.

Otherwise the proposal simply ignores existing realities and complexities and attempts to abstract them out of existence. They'll reappear in time in other places or forms.

Additionally, my understaning of "presume good faith" may be different from yours. It's not so much a belief I'll maintain, most especially in the absence of evidence. It's an operating and communications modality I will attempt to sustain (and hope others do), up to the point at which it is clearly no longer tenable. It's an extension of all feasible grace and credit, to the point that no possible justification for that extension remains.

Andreas Schou, a Googler, used to have an excellent guide to moderation pinned to his profile page there. A copy survives here:

https://www.voidstar.com/Takeout/ActivityLog/Comments.html

I've posted it, with paragraph breaks to Pastebin: https://pastebin.com/raw/W3vpntgM

Re: Google cancels TGIF weekly all-hands meetings

#178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry I thought I was replying to the poster of the comment I replied to. How is the connection "pretty clear"?

"Diversity" based on identity politics and physical characteristics (race, gender, skin color) is a left-wing position.

First off, "identity politics" and centering ideologies around physical characteristics, religious views (almost as unchangeable), or ethnic backgrounds is practiced across the political spectrum. According to Wikipedia at least, "Left-wing politics supports social equality and egalitarianism, often in opposition to social hierarchy"[1]. There's nothing specific about identity politics there.

Secondly, looking at the website that's not even the whole scope of the program. For example, they have diversity initiatives for veterans, people with disabilities, and employee resource groups for older people.

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-wing_politics

Re: Google cancels TGIF weekly all-hands meetings

#179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Diversity" based on identity politics and physical characteristics (race, gender, skin color) is a left-wing position.

First off, "identity politics" and centering ideologies around physical characteristics, religious views (almost as unchangeable), or ethnic backgrounds is practiced across the political spectrum. According to Wikipedia at least, "Left-wing politics supports social equality and egalitarianism, often in opposition to social hierarchy"[1]. There's nothing specific about identity politics there. Secondly, looking at the…

So this "diversity" is also part of right-wing politics then? And if so, why is there any political disagreement about it?

Re: Google cancels TGIF weekly all-hands meetings

#180
post #18

I turned down an offer from Google (cloud) because I didn't want to work for a company that was so focused on politics internally. This was just after they fired Damore, not that I agree or disagree with his opinion, but because Google seems promote internal fighting. That type of culture doesn't appeal to me.

Google is promoting internal fighting ? That's the most baseless accusation I can think of and is miles apart from my personal experience.
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