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Pointless work meetings 'really a form of therapy'

bbc.com

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Re: Pointless work meetings 'really a form of therapy'

#101

Post by flatline »

earthboundkid wrote: post #45
mipmap04 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've found that, with the exception of daily stand-ups, all meetings must have a bullet point agenda and notes should be sent out for each meeting with risks, action items, issues and ownership of those items. If both of those things are lacking, I doubt how useful the meeting will be or was.

Agreed but it also applies to standups. I think if you just want ambient awareness, have people post their daily "what I did/will do" to Slack. No need to derail every single day for half an hour or more.

Half an hour or more is no longer a standup.

Re: Pointless work meetings 'really a form of therapy'

#103

Post by wpietri »

tomrod wrote: post #54
bloopernova wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Some of the quietest people in the company had the most to say when they were behind a screen. This is very much me. I am an introvert, and despite being a team lead, will get run over by louder more assertive folks. I'm learning to stick up for myself (only been a lead for 2 months) but it's a long road. With an email or chat, I can reformulate what I mean to say multiple times. Refine my message and make it clear…

You sound similar to me a few years back! Here is what I did (suggested by a boss who was magic with meeting effectiveness), YMMV: - Come to meetings with a short list of decisions to be made or expected contributions - Bring suggested resolutions if I owned the meeting / was primary technical resource / team lead and had some to suggest -- and communicate that these are the default in absence of consensus or buy-in…

And for managers, I suggest being diligent in a) making sure that the introverts get heard, and b) training everybody in making sure everybody gets heard.

Re: Pointless work meetings 'really a form of therapy'

#104

Post by wutbrodo »

lisper wrote: post #79
DougBTX wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s certainly confusion about this, as Slack can be used for both. If someone sends you a message, and they’re happy to wait for a reply, then that’s asynchronous. If someone posts an @here in a channel asking for comments before making a final decision on the spot, then that's synchronous.

Yes, and this is exactly the problem with Slack: it tries to shoehorn both modes into a single mechanism. Asynchronous communications must be structured fundamentally differently from synchronous ones in order to be effective. Trying to merge them into a single mechanism is a horrible mistake.

Async communication is what email is for! People who use Slack for sync communication are hopelessly confused (obvious tell: async doesn't notify you). This obviously only applies to DMs, @heres, and tags: public channels are just async modes that can smoothly transition into sync

Re: Pointless work meetings 'really a form of therapy'

#105

Post by Jtsummers »

arkitaip wrote: post #58
cabraca wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I call your BS call :) There is nothing better than a day with nicely spaced meetings My current Project on every second wednesday: 10:00-10:30 Daily Standup 11:00-12:00 Architect Jour Fix 12:00-12:30 Lunchbreak 13:00-14:00 Sprint Retro 15:00-16:00 Sprint Planning Most of the gaps have a reason (conflicting meetings, etc) We use those gaps to "transfer knowledge". That basically means we sit in the cafeteria chatting…

When do you do actual work?

The other 9 days.

Re: Pointless work meetings 'really a form of therapy'

#106

Post by wutbrodo »

WaylonKenning wrote: post #80
WhompingWindows wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, you're actually putting that forward as a good day? That boggles my mind...if you come in at 9, get settled, you have maybe 45 minutes to work. Then, until 14-15, you have NO one hour stretch, then you have just one more stretch from 16-17...when do you actually code?? Don't you need a couple hours of focused time?

As an Architect, I'd rather have six hours of meetings, and one hour of documentation, than eight hours straight of being at a computer. In some jobs - meetings are the work. Meetings are influencing, are negotiating, are discussing, are communicating. And all of that is best done face to face.

That's orthogonal to the fragmentation. Probably two thirds of my job is meetings, but I'm ruthless about compacting them so that the remaining third isn't a scattered forty five minutes at a time

Re: Pointless work meetings 'really a form of therapy'

#107

Post by mikorym »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #9

One of my employers actively discouraged meetings and phone calls. They wanted everything done through Slack and email. It felt great at first. Having a wide-open calendar and knowing that random managers can’t pull you into a waste of time meeting seems like a dream come true. However, we quickly learned that removing meetings doesn’t removed the need for communication. Instead of scheduled meetings, our Slack chann…

I have to say it's really frustrating to duplicate functionality (in any way). This is what has happened to Slack, Quip, Salesforce and for that matter Facebook, Instagram and Twitter.

I want one way to view code (Vim), one way to view a .jpg (feh), one way to ask quick questions (IRC), one way to quickly browse text (Lynx), one way to communicate structured messages (email)... but alas it falls apart due to the fact that we work as social creatures.

Re: Pointless work meetings 'really a form of therapy'

#108

Post by danielovichdk »

mipmap04 wrote: post #13
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #9

One of my employers actively discouraged meetings and phone calls. They wanted everything done through Slack and email. It felt great at first. Having a wide-open calendar and knowing that random managers can’t pull you into a waste of time meeting seems like a dream come true. However, we quickly learned that removing meetings doesn’t removed the need for communication. Instead of scheduled meetings, our Slack chann…

I've found that, with the exception of daily stand-ups, all meetings must have a bullet point agenda and notes should be sent out for each meeting with risks, action items, issues and ownership of those items. If both of those things are lacking, I doubt how useful the meeting will be or was.

Absolutely.

You can tell a lot about a person's professionalism by looking at their meeting invites.

I avtively refuse meetings without an agenda and a why this meeting is important. And I put a Joy in applying this on a management level too.

Don't fuck with people's time, it's the only thing we can't get back.

Re: Pointless work meetings 'really a form of therapy'

#109

Post by zip1234 »

mipmap04 wrote: post #13
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #9

One of my employers actively discouraged meetings and phone calls. They wanted everything done through Slack and email. It felt great at first. Having a wide-open calendar and knowing that random managers can’t pull you into a waste of time meeting seems like a dream come true. However, we quickly learned that removing meetings doesn’t removed the need for communication. Instead of scheduled meetings, our Slack chann…

I've found that, with the exception of daily stand-ups, all meetings must have a bullet point agenda and notes should be sent out for each meeting with risks, action items, issues and ownership of those items. If both of those things are lacking, I doubt how useful the meeting will be or was.

A counterpoint is that I've seen that people get appointed to handle those things and the recurring meeting happens but with additional overhead and people involved. Source: working in government

Re: Pointless work meetings 'really a form of therapy'

#110

Post by dcsommer »

andrewfong wrote: post #85
buboard wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

correct. Asynchronous is something like email

Technically, you can demand an immediate response via email (and in some industries, this is quite common). It's the expectations around the channel that matter.

Agreed, but I would say that chat channels (and especially 1:1 chat pings) typically have expectations closer to immediate mode compared to other mediums. Because they typically cause a notification and break in concentration, I label them as "synchronous." Any communication medium that does not have notifications and only works via me polling it is asynchronous.
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