Earlier quoted context omitted.
its not daily. its one day every two weeks.
The standup is still daily though, right?
yes
Pointless work meetings 'really a form of therapy'
71–80 of 222 posts
Re: Pointless work meetings 'really a form of therapy'
#72I call BS. Meetings make me lose the will to live & drove me to quitting my job multiple times. If you want to make sure I don''t do anything during the day, put in a meeting in the middle of it. Perhaps it helps people who have pointless jobs that create no value?
I call your BS call :) There is nothing better than a day with nicely spaced meetings My current Project on every second wednesday: 10:00-10:30 Daily Standup 11:00-12:00 Architect Jour Fix 12:00-12:30 Lunchbreak 13:00-14:00 Sprint Retro 15:00-16:00 Sprint Planning Most of the gaps have a reason (conflicting meetings, etc) We use those gaps to "transfer knowledge". That basically means we sit in the cafeteria chatting…
So long as that's only every Sprint planning day, I think there's value in having that "rest" day. I'd hope that instead it serves as a time to get the "low-effort" tasks done as well, such as finishing documentation, reviewing a task you put off, collaborating on issues that will inform the later planning, and other corporate tasks that we all have to do once in a while. If we all had a day to put that in, I think there would be value. (And yes, some of that time should be bonding with other coworkers!)
However, I think your intent was to suggest it was a great day because no "real work" was done.
Re: Pointless work meetings 'really a form of therapy'
#73One of my employers actively discouraged meetings and phone calls. They wanted everything done through Slack and email. It felt great at first. Having a wide-open calendar and knowing that random managers can’t pull you into a waste of time meeting seems like a dream come true. However, we quickly learned that removing meetings doesn’t removed the need for communication. Instead of scheduled meetings, our Slack chann…
I've found that, with the exception of daily stand-ups, all meetings must have a bullet point agenda and notes should be sent out for each meeting with risks, action items, issues and ownership of those items. If both of those things are lacking, I doubt how useful the meeting will be or was.
Not just an agenda but, if possible, an explanation for why each invitee is being invited and what they are expected to bring to the table. I can't count the number of meetings I show up to with only a foggy notion of why I was included or what important context I need to be aware of before discussion.
Re: Pointless work meetings 'really a form of therapy'
#74Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've found that, with the exception of daily stand-ups, all meetings must have a bullet point agenda and notes should be sent out for each meeting with risks, action items, issues and ownership of those items. If both of those things are lacking, I doubt how useful the meeting will be or was.
Not only do those things make meetings more productive, they increase the overhead to calling a meeting. We don't often celebrate making things harder to do, but adding friction to something that's happening too often can help bring it back into balance. That's especially true for things with large "multipliers". An unscripted meeting might take one hour for the person calling it, but eat 10 hours of other people's t…
>We don't often celebrate making things harder to do, but adding friction to something that's happening too often can help bring it back into balance.
Sometimes friction creates abrasion and waste. Sometimes it creates the traction necessary to actually move forward without sliding all over the place like a hot mess.
Re: Pointless work meetings 'really a form of therapy'
#75This reminds me of open-plan offices. What a nightmare.
Re: Pointless work meetings 'really a form of therapy'
#76Earlier quoted context omitted.
> the asynchronous “always on, always connected” style Nit: I've always heard this called synchronous , since in this style work is performed immediately, rather than queued up to wait for execution at a scheduled time.
I don't agree, there is nothing requiring them being synchronous since anyone can send a message at anytime and the response can be delayed an arbitrary amount of time unlike a meeting which has a definite start and stop. That certainly sounds asynchronous to me.
There’s certainly confusion about this, as Slack can be used for both.
If someone sends you a message, and they’re happy to wait for a reply, then that’s asynchronous.
If someone posts an @here in a channel asking for comments before making a final decision on the spot, then that's synchronous.
Re: Pointless work meetings 'really a form of therapy'
#77One of my employers actively discouraged meetings and phone calls. They wanted everything done through Slack and email. It felt great at first. Having a wide-open calendar and knowing that random managers can’t pull you into a waste of time meeting seems like a dream come true. However, we quickly learned that removing meetings doesn’t removed the need for communication. Instead of scheduled meetings, our Slack chann…
> the asynchronous “always on, always connected” style Nit: I've always heard this called synchronous , since in this style work is performed immediately, rather than queued up to wait for execution at a scheduled time.
> Nit: I've always heard this called synchronous, since in this style work is performed immediately, rather than queued up to wait for execution at a scheduled time.
I referred to meetings as synchronous because they acquire a lock on everyone's time, at a specifically scheduled time on their calendar.
I refer to Slack and e-mail communication as asynchronous because you're not explicitly locking other people's calendars, but those other people are expected to read and respond to the notifications all throughout the day.
If you never know when the next important "@here" conversation is going to pop up in one of your Slack channels, the only way to have a seat at the table is to be always on, always connected.
Re: Pointless work meetings 'really a form of therapy'
#78Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've found that, with the exception of daily stand-ups, all meetings must have a bullet point agenda and notes should be sent out for each meeting with risks, action items, issues and ownership of those items. If both of those things are lacking, I doubt how useful the meeting will be or was.
Agreed but it also applies to standups. I think if you just want ambient awareness, have people post their daily "what I did/will do" to Slack. No need to derail every single day for half an hour or more.
I find 15-minute, daily "sync meetings" to be an invaluable tool in coordinating the efforts of an organization with many moving parts.
The meeting chair (senior engineer) goes around the room and we all have the same list of items to report on each day. It helps avoid duplication of effort and also increases coordination in pursuit of objectives.
Re: Pointless work meetings 'really a form of therapy'
#79Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't agree, there is nothing requiring them being synchronous since anyone can send a message at anytime and the response can be delayed an arbitrary amount of time unlike a meeting which has a definite start and stop. That certainly sounds asynchronous to me.
There’s certainly confusion about this, as Slack can be used for both. If someone sends you a message, and they’re happy to wait for a reply, then that’s asynchronous. If someone posts an @here in a channel asking for comments before making a final decision on the spot, then that's synchronous.
Yes, and this is exactly the problem with Slack: it tries to shoehorn both modes into a single mechanism.
Asynchronous communications must be structured fundamentally differently from synchronous ones in order to be effective. Trying to merge them into a single mechanism is a horrible mistake.
Re: Pointless work meetings 'really a form of therapy'
#80Earlier quoted context omitted.
I call your BS call :) There is nothing better than a day with nicely spaced meetings My current Project on every second wednesday: 10:00-10:30 Daily Standup 11:00-12:00 Architect Jour Fix 12:00-12:30 Lunchbreak 13:00-14:00 Sprint Retro 15:00-16:00 Sprint Planning Most of the gaps have a reason (conflicting meetings, etc) We use those gaps to "transfer knowledge". That basically means we sit in the cafeteria chatting…
Wait, you're actually putting that forward as a good day? That boggles my mind...if you come in at 9, get settled, you have maybe 45 minutes to work. Then, until 14-15, you have NO one hour stretch, then you have just one more stretch from 16-17...when do you actually code?? Don't you need a couple hours of focused time?
As an Architect, I'd rather have six hours of meetings, and one hour of documentation, than eight hours straight of being at a computer. In some jobs - meetings are the work. Meetings are influencing, are negotiating, are discussing, are communicating. And all of that is best done face to face.