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How Steve Jobs 'out-Japanned' Japan or out-Sony'ed Sony

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Re: How Steve Jobs 'out-Japanned' Japan or out-Sony'ed Sony

#21

Post by ugh »

pvg wrote: post #20
ugh wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How widespread was optical digital out in 2001 compared to USB ports? What mattered is whether it was easy to get pirated MP3s from the PC to the player. Fiddling around with optical digital out compared to the much simpler USB seems backwards. MiniDisks might well have been superior to cassettes but compared to MP3 players? Ugh. MiniDisks would have been pretty cool (at least for a short time) if you could have plug…

My point was not to debate MiniDiscs but that just about everything the OP is using to support their argument is factually inaccurate. It's basically gibberish with a little ZOMG APPLE/IPHONE indignation morsel thrown in at the end.

The OP was correct about saying that you need line-in. That’s what I, too, always perceived as the major downside of MiniDisk. (He said micro-in but already corrected himself on that. An honest mistake, he actually meant line-in. That doesn’t make it gibberish.)

Re: How Steve Jobs 'out-Japanned' Japan or out-Sony'ed Sony

#22

Post by true_religion »

tptacek wrote: post #7
alxp wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple certainly could have made it easier to put any old video you want into iTunes, I think they made a strategic decision to coax people into purchasing video through iTunes by making it hard to just drop AVIs into it. If they had tried this with iTunes - come out with the music store before the player and limited you to only listening to music you bought through the store, they'd have been dead in the water. I'm s…

The version of the iTunes Music Store where people can put whatever media they want up for sale sounds, to me, as a consumer, less valuable than the single place I can go now to get almost any album on any label I normally listen to, or get the most recent episode of Parks & Rec. I'm sure there's great stuff on sale at flea markets too, but I don't want to shop there. Sorry.

> The version of the iTunes Music Store where people can put whatever media they want up for sale sounds

The op doesn't mean that iTunes would be used for selling media. Rather it'd be your personal media player for everything like AVI/Mpeg/etc. like VLC is.

I don't know how well iTunes can do this as is, but that's what he's arguing for.

Re: How Steve Jobs 'out-Japanned' Japan or out-Sony'ed Sony

#23

Post by jamesk2 »

threejay wrote: post #18

"Japan's very interesting. Some people think it copies things. I don't think that anymore. I think what they do is reinvent things. They will get something that's already been invented and study it until they thoroughly understand it. In some cases, they understand it better than the original inventor. Out of that understanding, they will reinvent it in a more refined second-generation version. That strategy works on…

"Our manufacturing technology has to equal or surpass that of Japan."

Good thing China's manufacturing technology is equal to or better than of Japan's!

Re: How Steve Jobs 'out-Japanned' Japan or out-Sony'ed Sony

#24

Post by tptacek »

true_religion wrote: post #22
tptacek wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The version of the iTunes Music Store where people can put whatever media they want up for sale sounds, to me, as a consumer, less valuable than the single place I can go now to get almost any album on any label I normally listen to, or get the most recent episode of Parks & Rec. I'm sure there's great stuff on sale at flea markets too, but I don't want to shop there. Sorry.

> The version of the iTunes Music Store where people can put whatever media they want up for sale sounds The op doesn't mean that iTunes would be used for selling media. Rather it'd be your personal media player for everything like AVI/Mpeg/etc. like VLC is. I don't know how well iTunes can do this as is, but that's what he's arguing for.

You're obviously right. Sorry for misreading.

Re: How Steve Jobs 'out-Japanned' Japan or out-Sony'ed Sony

#26

Post by tsotha »

iujyhgftrgh wrote: post #13
Macsenour wrote: post #8

I think from a larger view, it has always been easy to beat SONY. SONY as a company doesn't care about the customer AFTER they have purchased the item. Look at ANY software that comes with a device, it's simply awful if it works at all. Even the PS3 has iffy UI. I had a fantastic device for recording for my podcast, but getting the recording OFF the machine was almost impossible. The last version, ver. 3.2, had menu…

Sony of the late 70s early 80s was different. You don't remember how bad everyone else's industrial design and build quality was compared to Sony - it was like Audi or BMW in a world of Buicks.

This. People don't understand how revolutionary some of the products were in that era, especially the cheap, light, and high-fidelity headphones that made the Walkman possible.

Re: How Steve Jobs 'out-Japanned' Japan or out-Sony'ed Sony

#27

Post by rams »

http://www.playboy.com/articles/playboy-interview-steven-job...

That interview with Steve Jobs has some interesting insights.

PLAYBOY: Like computers, the automobile industry was an American industry that we almost lost to the Japanese. There is a lot of talk about American semiconductor companies' losing ground to Japanese. How will you keep the edge?

JOBS: Japan's very interesting. Some people think it copies things. I don't think that anymore. I think what they do is reinvent things. They will get something that's already been invented and study it until they thoroughly understand it. In some cases, they understand it better than the original inventor. Out of that understanding, they will reinvent it in a more refined second-generation version. That strategy works only when what they're working with isn't changing very much—the stereo industry and the automobile industry are two examples. When the target is moving quickly, they find it very difficult, because that reinvention cycle takes a few years. As long as the definition of what a personal computer is keeps changing at the rate that it is, they will have a very hard time.

Re: How Steve Jobs 'out-Japanned' Japan or out-Sony'ed Sony

#28

Post by iujyhgftrgh »

ugh wrote: post #17
pvg wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MiniDisc came out in '92, well before any portable MP3 players existed. MiniDisc recorders typically had optical digital inputs so you could get your albums on them from CD just fine.

How widespread was optical digital out in 2001 compared to USB ports? What mattered is whether it was easy to get pirated MP3s from the PC to the player. Fiddling around with optical digital out compared to the much simpler USB seems backwards. MiniDisks might well have been superior to cassettes but compared to MP3 players? Ugh. MiniDisks would have been pretty cool (at least for a short time) if you could have plug…

when I bought my minidisc they were about $100, a comparable Creative flash based Mp3 player was 32Mb.

You could have a handful of disks with 80mins of HQ music on each whereas the MP3 players of the time were either very expensive (like the first harddisk iPod) or had so little space you had to chose a few songs for each trip.

Re: How Steve Jobs 'out-Japanned' Japan or out-Sony'ed Sony

#29

Post by ugh »

iujyhgftrgh wrote: post #28
ugh wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How widespread was optical digital out in 2001 compared to USB ports? What mattered is whether it was easy to get pirated MP3s from the PC to the player. Fiddling around with optical digital out compared to the much simpler USB seems backwards. MiniDisks might well have been superior to cassettes but compared to MP3 players? Ugh. MiniDisks would have been pretty cool (at least for a short time) if you could have plug…

when I bought my minidisc they were about $100, a comparable Creative flash based Mp3 player was 32Mb. You could have a handful of disks with 80mins of HQ music on each whereas the MP3 players of the time were either very expensive (like the first harddisk iPod) or had so little space you had to chose a few songs for each trip.

The first MP3 player I bought had 128MB. (A Creative Muvo I bought in 2002.) I considered MiniDisk but having to use line-in seemed like such a hassle. (I didn’t have digital equipment and would have had to use the analog route and that just seemed like not worth it at all.)

I can understand how MiniDisk could have looked a bit more attractive a year or two earlier but not really in 2001 or 2002.

Re: How Steve Jobs 'out-Japanned' Japan or out-Sony'ed Sony

#30

Post by haribilalic »

Macsenour wrote: post #8

I think from a larger view, it has always been easy to beat SONY. SONY as a company doesn't care about the customer AFTER they have purchased the item. Look at ANY software that comes with a device, it's simply awful if it works at all. Even the PS3 has iffy UI. I had a fantastic device for recording for my podcast, but getting the recording OFF the machine was almost impossible. The last version, ver. 3.2, had menu…

I actually like the XMB UI and I like that it's consistent amongst my two different Sony TVs and my PS3. The remotes for the two TVs are the same too, except the extra button for 3D stuff on one and the way in which you open the battery compartment.

This is a good a customer experience. I can upgrade my TV or DVD player or whatever I don't have to learn how to use a new remote or UI other than the new features.

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