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PayPal stops payouts to models on Pornhub

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Re: PayPal stops payouts to models on Pornhub

#631

Post by ptaipale »

GoblinSlayer wrote: post #586
ptaipale wrote: post #582

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on what your "salary" is. In the EU, the banks are obligated to find out where you get your money. And they have an obligation to close your account if they don't get satisfactory answers. "Know your customer". My bank has recently started to ask customers to clarify transfers, and even shoot and send some video of themselves, smiling, and explaining things. I haven't got that myself yet but several colleague…

This is what puzzles me. Why they need an explanation how money flows in their own system? Don't they see all transfers?

They may see who is the sender of transfer, but that in itself is not a sufficient explanation for where the funds actually come and whether they are legitimate.

Series of transfers are a basic step in money laundering processes, so from that point of view the need for clarification of each step is understandable.

Re: PayPal stops payouts to models on Pornhub

#632

Post by ptaipale »

krageon wrote: post #629
ptaipale wrote: post #582

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on what your "salary" is. In the EU, the banks are obligated to find out where you get your money. And they have an obligation to close your account if they don't get satisfactory answers. "Know your customer". My bank has recently started to ask customers to clarify transfers, and even shoot and send some video of themselves, smiling, and explaining things. I haven't got that myself yet but several colleague…

Your bank doesn't need to be so invasive, so if they are you need to switch. There is no EU directive that tells them to clarify things using some sort of weird video proof.

But that may still be the easiest of ways required by the financial authority - which comes up with its own rules, the EU rules only being the minimum of what regulators in each country must implement. Often regulators want to be stricter, in order appear as "good tax collectors" and to avoid being targeted by social media campaigns etc.

Re: PayPal stops payouts to models on Pornhub

#633

Post by nothrabannosir »

raxxorrax wrote: post #553
alias_neo wrote: post #541

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been with my bank for 15+ years. One time I sent a payment of several hundred £s to a friend who's paid my share of a holiday when booking. In the description I put "fun times". I had a call from my bank asking me to explain the payment the next day. I've never been called before nor since that. It certainly feels like they're a bit touchy about certain references.

At that moment you should have made it clear that it isn't his business at all to disincenitivise future bad behavior. Even as a lazy person I probably would have switched banks.

It is; the UK has very strict KYC laws and any institution handling money is quickly on the hook for certain misdeeds by their customers. They need to show diligence in monitoring that activity.

> You must meet certain day-to-day responsibilities if your business is covered by the Money Laundering Regulations. These include carrying out ‘customer due diligence’ measures to check that your customers are who they say they are, and risk assessing your business.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/money-laundering-regulations-you...

(That entire page, like the rest of gov.uk, is comprehensive and very accessible to read for a layman. If you have any passing interest in the area I recommend giving it a skim.)

Re: PayPal stops payouts to models on Pornhub

#634

Post by netmonk »

oneplane wrote: post #431
beatgammit wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This tells me we need more anonymity. A bank doesn't need to know any more about you than wherever is necessary to complete a transaction and report tax details to you and the government, and honestly that can be done with only a tax identification number (which should be separate from a Social Security Number). The same goes for payment processors, though payment processors may additionally need a company/individual…

But then how would you know if you are processing stolen money?

how do you know that the cashback the shop clerk is handing your right now for your diet coke purchase wasnt used three days ago for buying Heroin in the street ?

We dont know and we dont care !

Re: PayPal stops payouts to models on Pornhub

#635

Post by VvR-Ox »

mola wrote: post #563
noobermin wrote: post #517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which further highlights how many "problems" that tech people in the US have tried to solve (transit->uber, various health care start-ups, etc) are essentially due to the failure of the US state to function properly or even focus on the right thing.

Yup, it seems US citizens pay crazy amount of hidden tax because of inefficiencies caused by fanatical anti government propaganda. This isn't only about freedom it's about keeping power in certain hands. Too bad it's being exported everywhere

+1 for this. When working in Germany I talked to citizens who told me their state is also heading that direction.

More things are denationalized so private companies now have the responsibility but also the revenue (like "Autobahn" or some time ago the post).

When I understand it correctly those where initially financed by public money so it seems like this investment is now being absorbed by the companies overtaking the business.

Accordingly there are strong voices who demand less control of the economy by the government.

I think they had a good system running (look at the numbers) and now they destroy that by adopting the ideas of the US-system.

Re: PayPal stops payouts to models on Pornhub

#636

Post by perlpimp »

4ad wrote: post #590
tluyben2 wrote: post #580

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it so easy to charge back then? If it's secured then they know it was you... Unless you have a police report saying you were coerced, forced, something was stolen?

Because US banks prefer to keep customers happy, unlike EU banks.

AFAIK there it was put in the law(at least US/Canada) that credit card company have to return money and deal with fraudsters their way, CC companies have some really rabid investigators. If they behave improperly you can voice a complaint for financial regulatory authorities - banks really hate dealing with the government.

Re: PayPal stops payouts to models on Pornhub

#637

Post by 4ad »

perlpimp wrote: post #636
4ad wrote: post #590

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because US banks prefer to keep customers happy, unlike EU banks.

AFAIK there it was put in the law(at least US/Canada) that credit card company have to return money and deal with fraudsters their way, CC companies have some really rabid investigators. If they behave improperly you can voice a complaint for financial regulatory authorities - banks really hate dealing with the government.

Yeah, the law is on your (customer's) side in the EU also. Unfortunately people don't know that, so banks can afford to bully their customers into renouncing their claims. Technically if you are the type of person who knows how to deal with these types of problematic businesses that push you around, you will eventually prevail, but it will cost you a lot of time and effort. In my case, the financial loss was not high enough in order to waste even more than three trips to the bank.

My partner's parents were hit hard though, about €5k. They argued back and forth with the bank for about 6 months to no avail. "Sorry, we can't do anything" type of answers. The bank also tried to trick them into signing "fraud forms" that in the fine print absolved the bank of any responsibility. It was only after I actually filed a claim with relevant financial authorities, and then hit the bank with that that they suddenly got their money back.

The interesting thing is that this mentality is so prevalent that even the non-fraud department bank employees genuinely didn't know that the bank is supposed to actually help them. Many of them told us their own stories about how they were defrauded (I have no reason to suspect they were lying because they were family friends, and I heard the stories before our incident).

Re: PayPal stops payouts to models on Pornhub

#638

Post by MisterTea »

alias_neo wrote: post #541
egeozcan wrote: post #524

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm living in Germany, the bank account of my neighbor in Commerzbank was closed because he wrote "hooker money" in description when sending money to one of his friends. At least that's what we believe because they refused to explain why. He could easily open another account in Volksbank and according to him, when the new account manager asked and learned why his previous account was closed, they had a pretty good la…

I've been with my bank for 15+ years. One time I sent a payment of several hundred £s to a friend who's paid my share of a holiday when booking. In the description I put "fun times". I had a call from my bank asking me to explain the payment the next day. I've never been called before nor since that. It certainly feels like they're a bit touchy about certain references.

> In the description I put "fun times".

I recently started using Venmo to pay a few people and the things I have wrote are awful. Recent examples include: "Human organ trafficking" "Lunch and murder for hire", "sack of shrunken heads" and so on. Let them call me.

Re: PayPal stops payouts to models on Pornhub

#639

Post by octosphere »

There is an alternative called Liberapay[0] but I haven't tried it, so I can't vouch for it. There is also Flattr[1], but Flattr is more for small micropayments to show your appreciation for a project or piece of software (not to mention you need a Paypal account to cash out your earnings). There's also things like Buy Me A Coffee[2], but again, centered around small micropayments (I imagine these performers need more than a coffee, although when you have several fans buying you a coffee it's a good gig). Also: I'm surprised nobody is talking about Patreon[3] (Prolly against their terms of service too though)

[0] https://liberapay.com/

[1] https://flattr.com/

[2] https://www.buymeacoffee.com/

[3] https://www.patreon.com/

Re: PayPal stops payouts to models on Pornhub

#640

Post by geomark »

short_sells_poo wrote: post #264
geomark wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the thing I find very disturbing. That an industry as highly regulated and essential to every day life as banking can pick and choose based on management's moral choices.

It's not a moral choice. It's a case of the business is not worth the hassle. KYC rules mean the bank is on the hook if they are found to harbor ill gotten gains and the sex industry had a some troubles in the past, while not producing enough volume on an individual level to make it worthwhile for a bank to overlook things.

I suppose that is it, that if the volume isn't there then even the smallest risk is too much for the bank to bother with. So they just terminate.

In a previous life I administered websites for a number of different businesses. One was a dating site that opened a small business account at a bank and then a couple weeks later the bank abruptly terminated their account, stating that they were not equipped to service "entertainment" business accounts. I guess their real reason was they considered there to be some risk that there would be soliciting going on and it wasn't worth the bother for the bank. The bank was very brash about it, stating that they can close an account at anytime for any reason.

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