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PayPal stops payouts to models on Pornhub

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Re: PayPal stops payouts to models on Pornhub

#601

Post by 4ad »

tluyben2 wrote: post #596
jotm wrote: post #566

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thankfully I've had better chargeback experiences with EU banks. I've only requested chargebacks on products I've not received, and provided my attempts to communicate with the seller. Always got my money back, but was blocked from buying from that merchant again (not that I'd try it after the bad experience).

I have had good chargeback experiences as well in the cases you name. I am talking about cases where it is clear where you are frauding the merchant which are still easy in the US. 3dsecure in most cases means you have to have coerced me AND have stolen my phone/token device. How would this warrant chargeback unless actually you did not receive your product and there is a clear trace of that. In this case indeed, you…

3dsecure is security theater, I hate it so much. It doesn't matter if you have 3dsecure, because a scammer can use your card on some site that doesn't use 3dsecure. All 3dsecure does is making it harder for me to pay to legitmate websites in the EU. But wait, more often than not I can't pay at all because (in my case) 3dsecure uses SMS, and SMS delivery is unreliable, I can't get SMS from my bank when I travel to the US, or even some when I travel to some other EU countries. For me, it doesn't work approximatively 50% of the time.

And of course, SMS 2FA is not secure at all. Now if there's fraud and the scammer used 3dsecure with spoofed SMS, good luck convinging the bank it wasn't you.

"But SMS is not the only option" you say, "other banks have better 2FA", actually, I use other banks too. And they have something insane for 2FA: https://lobste.rs/s/1cyltz/two_factor_authentication_now_ava....

Re: PayPal stops payouts to models on Pornhub

#602

Post by ghego1 »

Having a legal background, I would really like to evaluate the grounds for a class action for discrimination. Legal tech companies are increasingly taking moral stands, poorly motivated on dubious reasons, on legitimate and lawful activities, while at the same time the industry has a tremendous responsibility in enabling hate speech and gals information.

Re: PayPal stops payouts to models on Pornhub

#603

Post by tluyben2 »

4ad wrote: post #601
tluyben2 wrote: post #596

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have had good chargeback experiences as well in the cases you name. I am talking about cases where it is clear where you are frauding the merchant which are still easy in the US. 3dsecure in most cases means you have to have coerced me AND have stolen my phone/token device. How would this warrant chargeback unless actually you did not receive your product and there is a clear trace of that. In this case indeed, you…

3dsecure is security theater, I hate it so much. It doesn't matter if you have 3dsecure, because a scammer can use your card on some site that doesn't use 3dsecure. All 3dsecure does is making it harder for me to pay to legitmate websites in the EU. But wait, more often than not I can't pay at all because (in my case) 3dsecure uses SMS, and SMS delivery is unreliable, I can't get SMS from my bank when I travel to the…

If the site does not have 3dsecure then chargeback is easy...

And yes, agreed, SMS stinks. I have tokens for everything and insist on that. Unfortunately some banks now only have sms...

Re: PayPal stops payouts to models on Pornhub

#604

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

ptaipale wrote: post #582
yati wrote: post #575

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So I can't use my personal account to receive salaries? Does the bank have to know/care about the details my profession?

Depends on what your "salary" is. In the EU, the banks are obligated to find out where you get your money. And they have an obligation to close your account if they don't get satisfactory answers. "Know your customer". My bank has recently started to ask customers to clarify transfers, and even shoot and send some video of themselves, smiling, and explaining things. I haven't got that myself yet but several colleague…

My business got a KYC letter last year. So far I've ignored it. They haven't shut the account yet.

These things are usually treated as box ticking exercises, not as fervent investigative due diligence.

I would guess money laundering happens elsewhere.

For as little as $1m you can set up or buy a bank of your own. For $10m or more you can buy a regulated operating bank with employees and deposits.

The process is more complicated than plain old incorporation, but I would guess it won't be unduly troubling to people with a lot of spare cash at hand.

Re: PayPal stops payouts to models on Pornhub

#605

Post by Random_ernest »

Bombthecat wrote: post #513
bcheung wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've had several friends in the adult industry have their checking accounts closed at a several major banks as well. Traditional banking should definitely not be discriminating against fully legal activities.

Forbidden in germany. There is literally a law, which basically says: everyone needs to have and is allowed to have a banking account.

I know several people that had their account closed in germany for perfectly legal things. The Bank calls it: Geschäftsschädigendes Verhalten.

Stuff like gambling (which is legal in germany),or being iranian (which I suppose is legal too)

Re: PayPal stops payouts to models on Pornhub

#606

Post by 4ad »

tluyben2 wrote: post #603
4ad wrote: post #601

Earlier quoted context omitted.

3dsecure is security theater, I hate it so much. It doesn't matter if you have 3dsecure, because a scammer can use your card on some site that doesn't use 3dsecure. All 3dsecure does is making it harder for me to pay to legitmate websites in the EU. But wait, more often than not I can't pay at all because (in my case) 3dsecure uses SMS, and SMS delivery is unreliable, I can't get SMS from my bank when I travel to the…

If the site does not have 3dsecure then chargeback is easy... And yes, agreed, SMS stinks. I have tokens for everything and insist on that. Unfortunately some banks now only have sms...

See my edit about hw tokens. To me hw tokens are bad, not only because of the UI/UX disaster explained in the link above, but because I have to have the damn thing with me. Also, batteries ran out while I was in the US for 4 months, and the bank would not send me a new one, I'd have to come get it in person. Thanks bank!

And chargeback was always impossible in my case. In the US I click a button in the webui, or call a phone number. In the EU, I had to come in person to the bank three times, and fill all kinds of forms, and in the end, I still didn't get my money back.

Re: PayPal stops payouts to models on Pornhub

#607

Post by Mate2Mate »

Does nobody know about Nano yet? Instantly-confirmed, immutable, secure feeless payments.

All the model needs to do is display the Nano address or QR code in their backdrop, or on their web page. That's it - then receive, and possibly instantly react to, their instant notifications of payment receipt in their https://natrium.io wallet. Simples.

Sod VISA and PayPal and their charges and censorship. Those are obsolete now that the Nano Peer-to-Peer digital currency exists. (This was, after all, Satoshi Nakamoto's original vision - that Bitcoin, sadly, can't fulfil).

Re: PayPal stops payouts to models on Pornhub

#608

Post by Mate2Mate »

Amezarak wrote: post #158
aazaa wrote: post #135

Financial deplatforming is a monster, long-term trend to watch over the next decades. Deplatforming happens with sex workers. It also happens in the US marijuana industry. It happens with perfectly legal political content. The number of ways in which someone, somewhere will be offended by products or services for sale is growing, driven by a rapidly improving worldwide communication network and delivery system, and b…

Bitcoin’s use case for this is limited. If I were to purchase a product or service that might be subject to deplatforming, it’d better be anonymous, or I risk facing the social sanctions instead. “Amezarak’s bitcoin address sent 10BTC to a sex worker, fire him” is not a much better situation.

You can have more than one Nano address - including one kept for adult purposes.

Re: PayPal stops payouts to models on Pornhub

#609

Post by CaptainZapp »

short_sells_poo wrote: post #550
hedvig wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>found to harbor ill gotten gains Ah yeah like they were on the hook for laundering Mexican drug cartel money?

If you actually read my post, I do imply that when it is worth it, the banks will overlook things, but an individual sex worker's business is not worth the risk (probably, I'm not a banker). They'll help you launder $100 million, but not $10000.

They'll help you launder $100 million, but not $10000.

Actually, no; they won't.

That is unless you find a crooked banker (probably a number of them), which is willing to help.

While it's a nice illusion that a bank will do anything for money and this may have been the case 30 years ago this has massively changed.

The reputational risk and the risk of criminal prosecution, including loss of the banking license in critical markets, is much too big as that a reputable bank would willingly engage in such shenanigans nowadays.

That's not saying that it doesn't happen (see recent examples), but if it happens it's virtually always under circumvention of risk management and compliance departments at a bank.

Re: PayPal stops payouts to models on Pornhub

#610

Post by Mate2Mate »

epicureanideal wrote: post #288
aazaa wrote: post #135

Financial deplatforming is a monster, long-term trend to watch over the next decades. Deplatforming happens with sex workers. It also happens in the US marijuana industry. It happens with perfectly legal political content. The number of ways in which someone, somewhere will be offended by products or services for sale is growing, driven by a rapidly improving worldwide communication network and delivery system, and b…

Does anyone know of any solutions to this? Are there any payment options that have so far been immune to this issue? Maybe it's worth setting up alternative payment methods, even if the percent they charge per transaction is much higher, just to ensure stability of access to funds.

Yes - Nano fixes this.

Nano is instantly fully-confirmed, secure and immutable. All a model needs to do is display a Nano address (or QR code) in their webcam backdrop, or on their website. They get instant notification of payments, so have the option of instantly reacting to them. So they can be interactive with their viewers in real-time.

Nano is feeless, unlike Bitcoin, and will always be feeless. (Bitcoin's fees jumped to $6.25 on June 28 2019 so saying Bitcoin is currently 'cheap' doesn't really cover that.)

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