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Uber Hit with $650M Employment Tax Bill in New Jersey

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Re: Uber Hit with $650M Employment Tax Bill in New Jersey

#141

Post by bcrosby95 »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #132
kyleblarson wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At LAX you can walk 10-15 minutes to a hotel and get an Uber for way less than at the terminal.

You can walk out of LAX? Safely? I didn't think the entry road had sidewalks. Or is there some other route? And, given that those hotels have shuttles, why would you walk? Just take the hotel's bus. (Or are you feeling that that's not cool, because you're going there not to stay there, but just to take an Uber?)

On the lower level, Century Blvd has a sidewalk and crosswalks on the north side of the road. I walked it with my wife just two months ago, although not to catch an Uber, but instead to get our car from long term parking.

Re: Uber Hit with $650M Employment Tax Bill in New Jersey

#142

Post by user5994461 »

jdhn wrote: post #41
Accujack wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Closing the loophole in the law that lets them treat workers as "contractors" rather than employees is going to torpedo their whole business model.

I'm not sure why people think that drivers for Uber & Lyft shouldn't be treated as "contractors". I know I'm in the minority on this, but to me it seems that you can jump in and out of employment with Uber & Lyft quite easily, to the point that it does seem more like contract work. As an anecdote, I took a Lyft to the airport with someone who had stopped driving for 6 months in order to get started with a new full ti…

I think there are plenty of low level jobs that would allow that like waiters, cleaners, construction workers, warehouse workers or delivery drivers.

All jobs that are desperate for workers. It's constant shortage if you listen to the news, but when you see conditions it's more that people don't want to work there because the conditions and the pay are quite bad.

Re: Uber Hit with $650M Employment Tax Bill in New Jersey

#143

Post by username90 »

wnevets wrote: post #15
jdhn wrote: post #3

If the state wins, I wouldn't be surprised if Lyft and Uber pulled out, or at least increased their fares by a substantial amount.

or they could just follow the law?

In 2015 Uber made 9 million rides in New Jersey, and the article said they were ordered to pay $50M in employment taxes in that year, so drivers would be forced to give up $6 per ride extra in taxes. I don't think the drivers would want this.

In order to make the taxes not ridiculous Uber would be forced to start declining people who want to start riding, you'd have job interviews with an application process ensuring that the driver is going to be worth the significant employee tax, since a driver only driving a single time will cost them significant amounts. That is how normal businesses do this, and I think it would be a huge loss. The ability for anyone to just start driving for Uber with no questions asked is extremely progressive, not sure why anyone is trying to ruin that. I don't understand why people think that making money needs to be so controlled like it is today.

Source on number of rides in New Jersey:

https://eu.app.com/story/news/traffic/commuting/2015/11/12/u...

Re: Uber Hit with $650M Employment Tax Bill in New Jersey

#144

Post by username90 »

walshemj wrote: post #111
lend000 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how many people have this opinion just to stick it to "the man" -- seems like most of the anti-Uber HN crowd does not actually drive for Uber, but nonetheless express a passionate hatred for their business model.

They are avoiding taxes which indirectly increases ours

Your comment doesn't make sense, are you saying that all independent contractors are tax avoiders and leech from society? Either the taxes independent contractors pay are fine and Uber paid a fair amount, or we need to raise the rates for all independent contractors.

Re: Uber Hit with $650M Employment Tax Bill in New Jersey

#145

Post by jlarocco »

listenallyall wrote: post #56
navigatr wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These talking points died in 2016. Now that Uber isn't subsidizing rides with investor's money and raised their fares, Uber is actually more expensive than taxis in NJ. There's no reason ride hailing companies need to violate labor laws to do business.

Source? At EWR a few weeks ago while waiting for luggage, I wandered over to the taxi stand. The quoted fare (there was no line, by the way) was twice that of either Uber or Lyft to the same destination.

But the taxi driver will be paid to drive back home, even if he can't pickup a fair.

It's cheaper for the customer, but Uber drivers get screwed in the long term.

Re: Uber Hit with $650M Employment Tax Bill in New Jersey

#146

Post by username90 »

turc1656 wrote: post #95
jdhn wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure why people think that drivers for Uber & Lyft shouldn't be treated as "contractors". I know I'm in the minority on this, but to me it seems that you can jump in and out of employment with Uber & Lyft quite easily, to the point that it does seem more like contract work. As an anecdote, I took a Lyft to the airport with someone who had stopped driving for 6 months in order to get started with a new full ti…

In my book, if you can't determine the price for your service, you aren't a contractor, pure and simple. Uber determines the rates, sets their fees, supplies the clients, and has rules about how many times you can skip/pass on choosing to accept a fare. Uber basically controls every aspect of the entire process but let's people choose when they want to work. That "benefit" is thrown out to drivers so that Uber can tr…

> Uber basically controls every aspect of the entire process but let's people choose when they want to work.

No, the main benefit is that Uber doesn't choose who can drive, anyone can sign up and start driving. I don't see how you can classify them as employees without Uber having any selection criteria at all for the drivers except that they have a valid drivers licence.

The workers choose to work at Uber, Uber didn't choose to employ the workers since Uber is open for all.

Re: Uber Hit with $650M Employment Tax Bill in New Jersey

#147

Post by TheMagicHorsey »

Even though Uber will eventually be ruined by the bad press, we should all appreciate what they did. The taxi industry was an overregulated high-rent business dominated by insiders, delivering shitty service at high prices, and nobody was able to break into it.

Uber broke that and introduced people to what is possible with the free market. Now the government can't just go back to its corrupt ways. People will notice if service degrades.

I hope Lyft, Uber, and others are driven out of some markets just so we can see if there's a backlash against the unholy union of government, left-wing unions, and taxi cab companies.

I feel like people should be reminded about what the government and taxi cab union dominated market was like with their hedgefund insider deals (to purchase medallions) and other corrupt dealings.

People always assume decapitating Uber will bring an utopia ... they should be reminded about how corrupt government is when nobody is watching (and people usually aren't watching).

Re: Uber Hit with $650M Employment Tax Bill in New Jersey

#148

Post by 9HZZRfNlpR »

username90 wrote: post #146
turc1656 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my book, if you can't determine the price for your service, you aren't a contractor, pure and simple. Uber determines the rates, sets their fees, supplies the clients, and has rules about how many times you can skip/pass on choosing to accept a fare. Uber basically controls every aspect of the entire process but let's people choose when they want to work. That "benefit" is thrown out to drivers so that Uber can tr…

> Uber basically controls every aspect of the entire process but let's people choose when they want to work. No, the main benefit is that Uber doesn't choose who can drive, anyone can sign up and start driving. I don't see how you can classify them as employees without Uber having any selection criteria at all for the drivers except that they have a valid drivers licence. The workers choose to work at Uber, Uber didn…

What about drivers rating?

Re: Uber Hit with $650M Employment Tax Bill in New Jersey

#149

Post by miohtama »

kapuasuite wrote: post #44
navigatr wrote: post #4

Jersey City just had a public referendum on short-term rentals that AirBnB spent millions of dollars lobbying against. It's good to see that the both the public and its elected officials are coming up to speed on the realities companies like Uber and AirBnb force upon them by skirting the law.

These are the same elected officials who let taxi companies rip off passengers for the better part of a century by limiting competition through the medallion system, and protect hotel interests because they’ve been able to tack a ton of extra taxes onto every hotel bill?

We can have both Uber's app experience and drivers being classified as employees. They are not mutually exclusive.

Re: Uber Hit with $650M Employment Tax Bill in New Jersey

#150

Post by darkwizard42 »

turc1656 wrote: post #101
listenallyall wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taxi drivers don't set their own rates. What's the proper categorization?

The taxi analogy isn't the same. The rates are being set by the local government , not some non-government third-party whom they work with like perhaps the people who actually own the medallions (most are loaned out) or the people who lease out usage of the vehicles, etc. If those places were setting rates on what could be charged then I'd say there's an argument to be made. Also, let's not forget why the government…

This isn't wholesale true. Some areas are highly regulated (see Tokyo) and some are not regulated at all. Also, local government sets a MAXIMUM rate in some jurisdictions. The taxis then choose to set the rate the driver can get paid.
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