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PayPal stops payouts to models on Pornhub

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Re: PayPal stops payouts to models on Pornhub

#111

Post by Mirioron »

rvz wrote: post #95
PhasmaFelis wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cryptocoins aren't practical enough (yet?) to rely on completely for stuff like this. If the flow has any more friction than "payer enters their credit card info once, then agrees to send a value; payee receives it in their bank account at a set time and can immediately use it to buy groceries", it's going to seriously affect some people's incomes. I'm not downvoting you for that, FYI, but I am downvoting you for the…

> Cryptocoins aren't practical enough (yet?) to rely on completely for stuff like this. Really? I can understand "Bitcoin" as one of many cryptocurrencies that are unstable and very slow for these payments, but some cryptocurrencies are faster and cheaper than others and are suitable for this use-case. There are many ways to pay nowadays: 1. Scan a QR Code to send cryptocurrencies to the payee. 2. Type the address of…

The problem is that those systems are immature. Would you be willing to rely on them to earn your living, especially if you live in a poor country?

Re: PayPal stops payouts to models on Pornhub

#112

Post by bena »

jimnotgym wrote: post #10

A contributor once wrote on hn about the huge market for a porn friendly payment system. Key feature, must not look suspicious on credit card bill...

The problem is that even if there is an innocuous sounding name, once it gets known as "the porn clearing house", it doesn't matter.

Re: PayPal stops payouts to models on Pornhub

#113

Post by otterley »

1000units wrote: post #108
zzzcpan wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are making a moral judgement, it has nothing to do with mental stability.

I'm making an objective statement about reality backed by basic, well-understood features of human psychology and personal experience with porn actresses.

The plural of anecdote is not data. Also, do you have any credentials to back up your expertise in the field of psychology?

Re: PayPal stops payouts to models on Pornhub

#114

Post by lazzlazzlazz »

mjevans wrote: post #7

A chilling effect on free speech. Real alternatives to paypal and credit cards need to enter the market. It sadly looks like my favorite hope is still not ready, but I am hopeful that this is due to slow and careful development that will lead to a stable long term outcome. https://taler.net/en/faq.html

There's almost no reason payment couldn't be handled with a reputable, totally decentralized stablecoin like Dai. The solutions exist, but they need to be socialized and streamlined.

EDIT: Would love some reasoning around downvotes.

Re: PayPal stops payouts to models on Pornhub

#115

Post by jandrese »

spookthesunset wrote: post #64
mirekrusin wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fraud has completely different profile on cryptocurrency. They would have zero chargeback percentage. Just think about it.

> They would have zero chargeback percentage. Just think about it. LOL. Great for the shady porn site operators but not at all good for the consumer who has no recourse. A lot of those chargebacks are perfectly valid because the site operator is some shady fly-by-night site doing shady stuff.

On the plus side, it's not like they can just grab money out of your wallet with Crypto. You have to initiate the transfer. No "typos" when running your card. No double charges. It actually seems like a valid use case for crypto. Downside is the high fees and/or long waits for the coins to clear.

Re: PayPal stops payouts to models on Pornhub

#116

Post by jandrese »

vkaku wrote: post #39
__jal wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Key feature, must not look suspicious on credit card bill That's called a hotel room.

More like 'Hot Coffee at Hotel XXX'. But in all seriousness, imagine using the Apple card for this, and then it comes up with a logo which says exactly what it is, heh :) The best way to tackle that is to own a media company, and have PornHub as one of its' holdings, and then the bill would appear to be a neutral 'Decent Looking Media Inc.' or something like that.

Honey, why did you spend $400 on hotel coffee?

Re: PayPal stops payouts to models on Pornhub

#117

Post by robinson-wall »

redblacktree wrote: post #83
thu2111 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is a US thing. I've tried to do chargebacks before in Europe because a website wouldn't stop billing me, and was told the only thing I could do is cut up the card and get issued a new one.

Chargebacks happen after the fact; they won't prevent the same merchant from charging you again in the future. (You can, of course, issue a chargeback on those payments as well)

Your card issuer (at least in the UK) is obligated to block recurring payments from a particular merchant if you request it

https://www.fca.org.uk/news/news-stories/continuous-payment-...

Re: PayPal stops payouts to models on Pornhub

#119

Post by viraptor »

thu2111 wrote: post #63
toomuchtodo wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stripe won't touch adult content, I've tried (chargeback ratio is very high, I don't blame them). Very hard to find processors who will work with adult content of any sort. The real problem is that person to person money transfers shouldn't be prohibited unless by law. Perhaps Pornhub, in the US at least, could use something like Zelle to mediate transfers between patrons and performers (using their bank account to m…

I think this is a US thing. I've tried to do chargebacks before in Europe because a website wouldn't stop billing me, and was told the only thing I could do is cut up the card and get issued a new one.

Which country/processor? This is normally regulated and there are explicit processes around chargebacks. It's surprising/suspicious that you'd ever be refused one.

Re: PayPal stops payouts to models on Pornhub

#120

Post by gorgoiler »

spookthesunset wrote: post #70
gorgoiler wrote: post #52

What are the biggest cost centers for a new payment provider? Software engineers? Rack space? Dispute (fraud) resolution? Marketing?

Fraud. One of the factors in determining your interchange fees as a merchant is your risk profile. It is why a grocery store has a different fee structure than a gas station or a restaurant. Almost the entire industry is driven by risk profiles.

It feels like there’s two kinds of fraud, and I think you mean both?

(1) I buy a camera online, but the store mails me a brick. The payment provider steps in (at their own cost) to investigate and resolve the fraud, which is costly.

(2) The technology of the payment provider itself is subverted. For example, someone clones the mag stripe on my 1980s credit card and goes on a spending spree. Again, the payment provider picks up the cost of hunting down the malefactors, and they also compensate me. Cost cost cost.

When the payment system is cash, fraud is avoided by using vendors with good reputations, or at least with verifiable business names and addresses to allow legal action if they sell me a 24 megapixel brick. Protecting against subversion of the payment mechanism itself is up to me (keep my wallet safe) and the treasury (fancy holograms on bank notes.)

With modern online payment systems, are they legally obliged to always be on the hook for the first type of fraud? Is the obligation because they are providing a credit line? (I think this is the case in UK law at least, with the Consumer Credit Act.) If the payment provider didn’t want to have to deal with that sort of fraud, do they just have to avoid looking like they are offering credit?

I hope that we can assume that in any modern online system, the only occurrence of the second type of fraud is from insiders, as at launch (or at least, over time) the crypto is unlikely to be breakable on the wire / with card cloning / etc.

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