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Explaining 4K 60Hz Video Through USB-C Hub

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Re: Explaining 4K 60Hz Video Through USB-C Hub

#101

Post by ProZsolt »

nikanj wrote: post #17
Eric_WVGG wrote: post #16

I saw this headline and was briefly excited for a moment that a USB-C hub finally existed. That is, a device like an ethernet hub or a USB hub, that would turn one port into several other ports of the same kind. This is an article about USB-C port replicators. Four years into this and not a real single USB-C hub exists. I’ve never seen such a botched rollout.

I've been told the USB-C spec doesn't allow for hubs like that.

That's not true. The spec allows it but currently, there's no chip that supports it.

Re: Explaining 4K 60Hz Video Through USB-C Hub

#102

Post by dheera »

coldtea wrote: post #43
mantoto wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's just bullshit. You can check for how many uses a usbc plug was designed and tested for.

What they say is they have a charger in their pocket and connected to their phone while hiking. So they're like yanking the cable, sometimes slightly, sometimes harder, thousands of times per day, as they walk, climb, etc. I'd say put the thing in a backpack, or use wireless, or whatever...

I'd say it should be designed for being able to put a phone in your pocket while connected to a charger and engaging in sports. That sounds like a perfectly normal consumer-friendly feature, and consumers will do it anyway. Putting it in a backpack means you cannot easily look at it.

The solution is fairly simple -- the /housing/ around the plug needs to be standardized and have a snug fit into the housing of the phone. That would relieve strain on the connector or contact.

I really don't understand why people are downvoting me here. I thought downvoting was to deal with trolls and abusers. When did people start downvoting people they disagree with? That discourages meaningful discussion.

Re: Explaining 4K 60Hz Video Through USB-C Hub

#103

Post by dmos62 »

hvis wrote: post #92
dmos62 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's also a middle-ground that would have made people happier across the spectrum. Standard power cable, for phone, laptop, etc. Standard data cable, for your ereader, camera. Standard video-audio cable. I think it's a good principle to have that if the engineers suffer, that will run downhill on consumers too. I think every engineer can find examples of that.

And the manufacturers would have never agreed on which ones to use. Starting with the zoo of power connections out there. It's a miracle I can charge my Dell XPS15 laptop using the work-provided Apple USB-C charger. Really.

It's just a question of regulation. I was under the impression, correct me if I'm wrong, that USB-C is the result of regulation as well.

Re: Explaining 4K 60Hz Video Through USB-C Hub

#104

Post by bloopernova »

bgorman wrote: post #14

Great article. I was recently wading through this problem for my work setup. I was going crazy wondering what the actual technical limitations were with USB-C vs Displayport over USB-C versus Thunderbolt. I ended getting this WAVLINK dock for $150 with Thunderbolt 3. If you want Dual 4k montiors and USB 3 output + power for your laptop I recommend this. https://www.amazon.com/WAVLINK-DisplayPort-Thunderbolt-Charg...

I got one of these for just the 2 DisplayPort outputs:

https://smile.amazon.com/Cable-Matters-Thunderbolt-DisplayPo...

Then bought one of these from a coworker for $40 to drive all the other ports. I've been pretty lucky. (all being driven by a 2018 macbook pro)

https://smile.amazon.com/Docking-Station-Laptop-Power-Delive...

The first dongle is driving 2 Dell 23" 1080 screens, my 27" 4K screen is driven directly by a thunderbolt to displayport cable, and all my USB stuff goes through the second dongle. It works really well so far, and I have an upgrade path for 2 more 4K screens with the Cable Matters dongle.

Yours is an all-in-one that really looks nice though. How warm does it get?

Re: Explaining 4K 60Hz Video Through USB-C Hub

#105

Post by ProZsolt »

garmaine wrote: post #18
Eric_WVGG wrote: post #16

I saw this headline and was briefly excited for a moment that a USB-C hub finally existed. That is, a device like an ethernet hub or a USB hub, that would turn one port into several other ports of the same kind. This is an article about USB-C port replicators. Four years into this and not a real single USB-C hub exists. I’ve never seen such a botched rollout.

USB-C hubs are not permitted by the spec.

Please don't spread false information. The specs clearly mentions hubs and how to implement them: https://www.usb.org/sites/default/files/USB%20Type-C%20Spec%...

Re: Explaining 4K 60Hz Video Through USB-C Hub

#106

Post by brandonmenc »

janlaureys wrote: post #40
BiteCode_dev wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm completely ok with it being complicated to design and cost 10 euros more if it delivers. And despite all its flaws, USBC does. It's small. It's reversible. I can charge all my devices on it: my samsung tablet, my oneplus phone, my logitech mouse, my jabra headphones, my switch and my XPS 13 laptop, which I can also dock to my screen/ethernet. It's amazing. So yes, I had to take the time to find the proper cable,…

I'm soon switching a lot of things to USB-C. What brands of cables would you recommend ?

I cast another vote for Anker.

Also, for USB-C to USB-B, DJ Tech Tools' Chroma Cables [0] are very good.

[0] https://store.djtechtools.com/products/chroma-cables-usb-c

Re: Explaining 4K 60Hz Video Through USB-C Hub

#107

Post by dmos62 »

matz1 wrote: post #76
dmos62 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I probably misused the "across the spectrum" idiom. What I meant is that it would make developers much happier than USB-C and it would make consumers much happier than USB 3. My idea was that it's a more wholesome situation than content consumer and frustrated developer.

As a consumer I want one cable to do all of it. Sure, like anything else, it will be difficult and slow progress to get there. As developer you sould see it as challenge.

It's good that you know your ideal user-experience (developers are aware of it too), but the trade-offs will depend on what's happening on the developer's end, so dismissing developer difficulties is not conducive to a good consumer experience.

Developer difficulty is a symptom of a more systemic problem, and it will usually affect the end-user through: higher-cost, lower-reliability, accumulation of technical debt, and/or resource-inefficiency.

Re: Explaining 4K 60Hz Video Through USB-C Hub

#108

Post by nevitablentropy »

Nextgrid wrote: post #69
wslh wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once this is sorted out we would have a wonderful world. Using a single Thunderbolt port I connect my notebook to a dock and immediately convert the small notebook into a desktop with three external monitors plus many other ports. I can also magically use the same USB-C hub I use in the notebook in my mobile phone to add a keyboard and mouse plus an HDMI monitor. I have never seen this in the past: my previous notebo…

That world will not happen unless every single device including entry level phones and size-constrained devices somehow magically include all the circuitry required to handle all the different alternate modes. Also, as far as I understand there just isn’t enough pins to support all the modes at once so trade offs have to be made...

I am currently using a Henge dock with a keyboard, mouse, ethernet, laptop charging, and a 4k display connected all through a single USB-C cable.

The dock works without issue on both of my laptops, a MacBook Pro (13") and Dell Precision laptop.

Re: Explaining 4K 60Hz Video Through USB-C Hub

#109

Post by MaddAgent »

ben-schaaf wrote: post #87
Derbasti wrote: post #78

Let's talk power: The USB-C PD charger of my Nintendo Switch does not charge my phone, but it does charge my Surface. My phone's USB-C charger does charge the phone and Surface, but not the Switch. My USB-C battery pack charges my phone, but is charged by my Surface. Yeah, it just works. How do, say, a battery pack and a Surface negotiate who is charging who over a symmetric USB-C-to-C cable?

On the topic of power, I really don't understand how USB-C is supposed to replace charging cables. USB-C is limited to 100W. That's enough for a switch, phone or low power laptop, but if this[0] is anything to go by the 6 core intel laptop CPUs already eats 80W of power. Add an extra 2 cores and you might not even be able to sustain a CPU load without draining the battery. Not to mention much higher power draw GPUs.…

So you're thinking the new MacBook Pro 16 with an 8 Core CPU and a GPU using the included 96Watt USB-C charger may drain the battery under full load?

Re: Explaining 4K 60Hz Video Through USB-C Hub

#110

Post by simlevesque »

nevitablentropy wrote: post #108
Nextgrid wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That world will not happen unless every single device including entry level phones and size-constrained devices somehow magically include all the circuitry required to handle all the different alternate modes. Also, as far as I understand there just isn’t enough pins to support all the modes at once so trade offs have to be made...

I am currently using a Henge dock with a keyboard, mouse, ethernet, laptop charging, and a 4k display connected all through a single USB-C cable. The dock works without issue on both of my laptops, a MacBook Pro (13") and Dell Precision laptop.

Same here... I have a Dell USB-C dock and a Dell Precision and when I plugged my boss' 2017 MacBook Pro and all worked out of the box, including ethernet and charging, we were impressed.

Then I plugged my LG G6 and I could download at 80mb/s with the ethernet cable and I can use my mouse and keyboard, it even recognized my NAS.

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