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Explaining 4K 60Hz Video Through USB-C Hub

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Re: Explaining 4K 60Hz Video Through USB-C Hub

#91

Post by michaelt »

pas wrote: post #56
feketegy wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to be a detective to track down which cable is compatible with which port on your computer. Of course most e-commerce platforms don't show features of the cable, it's usb-c and be done with it...

I have no idea why the standard isn't mandating clear markings (eg something like the bands on resistors, or whatever that works for color blind folks too).

I'm pretty sure the USB Implementers Forum is controlled by interests that think they benefit from things being confusing.

At least, I can't think of any other explanation for allowing 1.5Mbit/sec and 12Mbit/sec devices to call themselves 'USB 2.0'

Re: Explaining 4K 60Hz Video Through USB-C Hub

#92

Post by hvis »

dmos62 wrote: post #54
BiteCode_dev wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm completely ok with it being complicated to design and cost 10 euros more if it delivers. And despite all its flaws, USBC does. It's small. It's reversible. I can charge all my devices on it: my samsung tablet, my oneplus phone, my logitech mouse, my jabra headphones, my switch and my XPS 13 laptop, which I can also dock to my screen/ethernet. It's amazing. So yes, I had to take the time to find the proper cable,…

There's also a middle-ground that would have made people happier across the spectrum. Standard power cable, for phone, laptop, etc. Standard data cable, for your ereader, camera. Standard video-audio cable. I think it's a good principle to have that if the engineers suffer, that will run downhill on consumers too. I think every engineer can find examples of that.

And the manufacturers would have never agreed on which ones to use. Starting with the zoo of power connections out there.

It's a miracle I can charge my Dell XPS15 laptop using the work-provided Apple USB-C charger. Really.

Re: Explaining 4K 60Hz Video Through USB-C Hub

#93

Post by cesarb »

feketegy wrote: post #53
Nextgrid wrote: post #26

The USB-C spec is an insane mess. The fact that every port used to be different is actually a feature, as it helps you identify which device supports what based on the ports it had. If you see an HDMI port on a laptop you can be sure it's going to output some kind of video signal over that. If you see Thunderbolt then you're sure the machine supports Thunderbolt. USB-C just jams all these incompatible standards into…

You have to be a detective to track down which cable is compatible with which port on your computer. Of course most e-commerce platforms don't show features of the cable, it's usb-c and be done with it...

Yes, to me that's the worst part of the USB-C family of standards: it expects the operating system to tell the user "you're plugging it wrong" (and it does have ways in the protocols to detect all these cases, like using a 2.0-only cable to a 3.x device, or the host not supporting the desired alternate mode, or a lower grade cable when both ends could use a higher grade cable), but that requires the operating system to care about it, and doesn't help at all before you buy and unpack the cable/device.

> it's usb-c and be done with it...

It's even worse: most cables I've seen in stores labeled "USB-C cable" are actually USB-A to USB-C cables. Other than these, so far I've only seen an unlabeled USB-C to USB-C cable, and a Sony brand USB 2.0 USB-C to USB-C cable, both costing around R$ 100 (way more expensive than I'd expect for a basic 2.0-only cable).

Re: Explaining 4K 60Hz Video Through USB-C Hub

#94

Post by kkarakk »

i used to think usb c was awesome and would lead to a 1 wire for everything world.

Now i have 4 different kinds of usb c wire i need depending on usecase -

passive usb c for charging my headphones since they didn't implement a resistor, active usb c for charging laptop,usb c for charging mobile(fast charging),usb c for data transfer/thunderbolt/video display

what a disaster of a spec

Re: Explaining 4K 60Hz Video Through USB-C Hub

#95

Post by hkjhreiou »

alias_neo wrote: post #82
tlamponi wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can plug in a X1 carbon thinkpad in my monitor (some ultrawide dell) with USB-C support just fine. I then get video, audio, USB (the monitor has a hub where I have mouse and keyboard connected) _and_ charging/powering my laptop over a single link. Works today with Linux here! It's just magical, I tell you. The world started to happen already, it may not become all that good and 100% universal soon or anytime, but g…

I also recently bought a monitor with USB-C (Thunderbolt 3) which I can plug it's single cable into my DELL XPS and charge it, output 4K@60 to the display, and have my mouse and keyboard which are connected to the back of the monitor. The downside is when I want to use the same kb/mouse with my desktop, I have to unplug them from the monitor and plug them into the desktop.

> The downside is when I want to use the same kb/mouse with my desktop, I have to unplug them from the monitor and plug them into the desktop.

I use a cheap USB hub which has a button that can switch between two outputs for this:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01MXXQKGM/

Re: Explaining 4K 60Hz Video Through USB-C Hub

#96

Post by bloopernova »

cesarb wrote: post #90
yoz-y wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A nitpick but thunderbolt never had its own port. Versions 1 and 2 used mini display port plug and, version 3 used USB-C and well, USB-4 is just renamed Thunderbolt 3.

USB4 is more than just "renamed Thunderbolt 3". It adds USB 3.x tunneling while Thunderbolt 3 could only tunnel PCIe and DisplayPort (AFAIK, it faked USB 3.x tunneling by having a PCIe USB 3.x host on the device).

so USB4/neo-Thunderbolt is going to be the true universal connector? Does it still have a "mess" of different levels or protocols?

I'm hoping the thunderbolt 3 devices I have will "just work" with usb4 ports.

Re: Explaining 4K 60Hz Video Through USB-C Hub

#97

Post by hkjhreiou »

pas wrote: post #56
feketegy wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to be a detective to track down which cable is compatible with which port on your computer. Of course most e-commerce platforms don't show features of the cable, it's usb-c and be done with it...

I have no idea why the standard isn't mandating clear markings (eg something like the bands on resistors, or whatever that works for color blind folks too).

Because nobody would follow them anyway.

Apple wants white cables, some people want red, blue or yellow cables, so on. And the connectors are so small there is no place to put anything on them.

Re: Explaining 4K 60Hz Video Through USB-C Hub

#98

Post by seminatl »

Derbasti wrote: post #78

Let's talk power: The USB-C PD charger of my Nintendo Switch does not charge my phone, but it does charge my Surface. My phone's USB-C charger does charge the phone and Surface, but not the Switch. My USB-C battery pack charges my phone, but is charged by my Surface. Yeah, it just works. How do, say, a battery pack and a Surface negotiate who is charging who over a symmetric USB-C-to-C cable?

The power adapter that comes with the Switch supports only parts of the usb-pd standard. That’s why it didn’t work with your other phone.

You’re absolutely right about the protocol being unreasonable with two batteries connected together. FireWire has the same problem. You could charge a FireWire iPod from its wall adapter, and you could charge one from an iBook. If you accidentally plugged the AC adapter into the FireWire port of the iBook it would destroy the port.

Buses where every participant is an equal peer are expensive and complicated.

Re: Explaining 4K 60Hz Video Through USB-C Hub

#99

Post by bloopernova »

janlaureys wrote: post #40
BiteCode_dev wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm completely ok with it being complicated to design and cost 10 euros more if it delivers. And despite all its flaws, USBC does. It's small. It's reversible. I can charge all my devices on it: my samsung tablet, my oneplus phone, my logitech mouse, my jabra headphones, my switch and my XPS 13 laptop, which I can also dock to my screen/ethernet. It's amazing. So yes, I had to take the time to find the proper cable,…

I'm soon switching a lot of things to USB-C. What brands of cables would you recommend ?

Another vote for Anker, they're consistently better quality than the other "random character name" brands found on Amazon.

Re: Explaining 4K 60Hz Video Through USB-C Hub

#100

Post by jjoonathan »

darkwater wrote: post #37
Nextgrid wrote: post #26

The USB-C spec is an insane mess. The fact that every port used to be different is actually a feature, as it helps you identify which device supports what based on the ports it had. If you see an HDMI port on a laptop you can be sure it's going to output some kind of video signal over that. If you see Thunderbolt then you're sure the machine supports Thunderbolt. USB-C just jams all these incompatible standards into…

All the issues you are reporting are just growing pains and will be sorted out/disappear alongside adoption and as the standard matures. USB-C is what a computer connector should have been from day 1. Edit: spelling

It could be a long time. Bluetooth has been around for a good while and still has tons of "growing pains."
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