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One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

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Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#311

Post by 2sk21 »

aedron wrote: post #296
say_it_as_it_is wrote: post #208

What we are seeing are the consequences of "Employee Capture". Google captured the hearts and minds of its employees for workplace productivity. Its side effects are varied. The real world only sees highlights. Googled created a bubble from which its employees can socialize without ever needing to do so with the outside world. Why talk politics with the outside world? Stay with us, where it is safe, people are intell…

With 20 years experience under my belt, it is my firm belief that the workplace is not a place to discuss politics, religion, or other highly personal and divisive issues. Obviously, this extends even more to the workplace itself bringing these topics up. I'm not aggressive or even obvious about this disposition, I just gently steer clear of violating it. I feel the same should apply to companies, fine if you want to…

Completely agree - the workplace is not a family and (mostly) not a group of friends.

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#312

Post by Tyr42 »

DagAgren wrote: post #281
thinkingemote wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Googler got fired for using unhelpful stereotypes. He didn't repeatedly claim women were inferior engineers (but I understand why people will believe it). Nor was it in my opinion intolerant but it was championed by those who are (there's a difference). It was some other unhelpful stereotype based on gender differences. The key take away is that generalising based on group Identity should not be done.

Yeah, none of that is the case. The first thing he did after being fired was run to the far-right propaganda outlets. That was very telling of what he actually believed.

You mean the only people who seemed to show him any compassionate, reach out to him or not interpret his actions as negatively as possible are who he started to associate with? Mild shock

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#313

Post by sjg007 »

mcv wrote: post #293
say_it_as_it_is wrote: post #208

What we are seeing are the consequences of "Employee Capture". Google captured the hearts and minds of its employees for workplace productivity. Its side effects are varied. The real world only sees highlights. Googled created a bubble from which its employees can socialize without ever needing to do so with the outside world. Why talk politics with the outside world? Stay with us, where it is safe, people are intell…

> "Being fired from Google amounts to not just losing a job but "friends" and the only people who the company encouraged socializing with." Surely this is an exaggeration? I mean, being friends with co-workers is great, but surely people at google also have friends outside Google, right? Right?

Probably friends from college or other workplaces.

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#314

Post by barry-cotter »

DagAgren wrote: post #286
int_19h wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being intolerant of intolerant actions is what is necessary to maintain a tolerant society. If you tolerate intolerant views, the paradox doesn't arise.

Views lead to actions. You can not draw a line between them and hope people will happily stand on one side of it. If you allow intolerant views, you normalise intolerance. If you normalise intolerance, you ALSO normalise intolerant acts, and they WILL follow naturally.

This is a justification for exterminatory politics. As a person with views to the right of centre the historical record suggests I would at best end up losing everything I own and probably end up in a re-education camp or dead in the event of a communist revolution. By your logic I would be justified in quite extreme measures to combat communism in the present day.

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#315

Post by oarsinsync »

stiray wrote: post #158
robbya wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Installing an extension to monitor employee use of a company computer is legal and generally accepted behavior. If the Google calendar is for a personal gmail account, then accessing the calendar details server side is a huge privacy breach.

Just to add EU view on "legal". This is highly illegal and it is criminal offense in same manner as wiretapping. You (as employer, even if you own employee computer) can get jailtime for this although hefty fine is more plausable. Before employee leaves the company, its manager is responsible to get all the company data stored (by leaving employee) on another computer, then IT takes the computer and wipes all the dri…

> Just to add EU view on "legal". This is highly illegal and it is criminal offense in same manner as wiretapping. You (as employer, even if you own employee computer) can get jailtime for this although hefty fine is more plausable.

This is not an EU-wide regulation. The UK is currently a member of the EU, and this practice is legal in the UK. Employees do not have the expectation of privacy on employer owned equipment.

(Please, lets not devolve into a conversation about Brexit, it's an unrelated tangent)

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#317

Post by SquishyPanda23 »

thinkingemote wrote: post #273
JohnBooty wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When people say this, I feel they're often thinking about the decreased tolerance for toxic views. Like that ex-Googler who got fired for repeatedly claiming that women were inferior engineers. There's been a decreased tolerance for... well, intolerance.

The Googler got fired for using unhelpful stereotypes. He didn't repeatedly claim women were inferior engineers (but I understand why people will believe it). Nor was it in my opinion intolerant but it was championed by those who are (there's a difference). It was some other unhelpful stereotype based on gender differences. The key take away is that generalising based on group Identity should not be done.

Did you actually follow this?

His rant was basically just of a list of stock arguments from the scientific racism era.

After he got fired his fans started a fundraiser on a white supremacy website.

His arguments were stock white supremacy and the people who adopted him as a hero were stock white supremacists. This isn't hard to figure out.

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#318

Post by JohnBooty »

mcv wrote: post #304
JohnBooty wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Within reason, sure. I would say that the main value that underlies all EU countries (not that we realize it perfectly, or even get close to it, of course!) is that human beings are the most important thing. American here: I strongly agree. And I don't like giving more power to corporations. They have too much already, and I believe that strong labor movements are one way to fight this. Still, I just... would never f…

There's a difference between using the computer and expecting privacy on it. It's entirely possible that you're not supposed to use certain equipment for personal use, but if you do it anyway, that doesn't erode your right to privacy. I'm not saying this is always the case in the EU, though. Obviously there is equipment where for many reasons it's absolutely vital that you don't use it for anything personal. I'm not…

I would have to agree. A company decrypting my encrypted traffic would not be okay.

I would be okay with them knowing I visited the banking site on company time (if I used their equipment, their DNS, etc) but not with decrypting the SSL encrypted data I'm exchanging with the bank or obtaining it in some other way such as a keylogger.

Though again, I'd probably avoid the issue entirely by using my own device and data connection if I didn't trust my employer. (I'm a bit spoiled, working in IT: I'd probably know if my employer was doing shady things with the data)

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#319

Post by fulafel »

aedron wrote: post #296
say_it_as_it_is wrote: post #208

What we are seeing are the consequences of "Employee Capture". Google captured the hearts and minds of its employees for workplace productivity. Its side effects are varied. The real world only sees highlights. Googled created a bubble from which its employees can socialize without ever needing to do so with the outside world. Why talk politics with the outside world? Stay with us, where it is safe, people are intell…

With 20 years experience under my belt, it is my firm belief that the workplace is not a place to discuss politics, religion, or other highly personal and divisive issues. Obviously, this extends even more to the workplace itself bringing these topics up. I'm not aggressive or even obvious about this disposition, I just gently steer clear of violating it. I feel the same should apply to companies, fine if you want to…

A lot of workplace cultures survive and even encourage discussiong differing views without making every place a battleground. And even encourage civil exchange of views between people who hold different views.

It's in vogue to use the ideas from the Nonviolent Communication book to make this work better. But those ideas are of course politocal.. as is the debate on whether to allow political discussions.

Also it's pretty hard to separate political discussions from work if you're doing something that impacts people's lives. (I'm leaving out jobs where the societal impact is clearly negative, there discouraging discussion might be rational for the employer)

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#320

Post by leftyted »

DagAgren wrote: post #280
say_it_as_it_is wrote: post #208

What we are seeing are the consequences of "Employee Capture". Google captured the hearts and minds of its employees for workplace productivity. Its side effects are varied. The real world only sees highlights. Googled created a bubble from which its employees can socialize without ever needing to do so with the outside world. Why talk politics with the outside world? Stay with us, where it is safe, people are intell…

> Your colleagues are not an authentic social network who you can organise with and pursue activism. This is absolutely, 100% false. This is exactly what you SHOULD do, and this is what unions are for. Always organise with coworkers. Otherwise you are giving employers more power over you than you should.

My empoyer doesn't have a lot of power over me. I'm a programmer not a coal miner.

I don't want to be in a union. I don't want to join some club. I don't want to pay dues. I don't want to read newsletters or listen to speeches or be involved at all in the grubby, underhanded manuevering for power that would come with a union. And I'm tired of people condescendingly telling me that I'm wrong for feeling this way. I'm not wrong. Power corrupts and labor is no more pure than mangement. If labor gets the upper hand it will abuse its position.

The solution is a balance of power between labor and management. In my case, I feel I have plenty of power. In the case of Google employees, I feel they have plenty of power. Broadly speaking, programmers (in the US) have plenty of power.

If you want to do good, volunteer at a soup kitchen. Of course that would be hard and would involve looking at things you'd rather not see.

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