Am I foolish for not believing the vi/vim hype? I understand that it's been around for as long as rocks, and that it's quite handy since it's available everywhere. I use it daily, in fact, but rarely for more than basic editing. I'll just come out and say it: my favorite editor is Visual Studio. Sure, it's slow to load and rather fat now, but I'm talking solely about the editing functionality. With vim, I have to cli…
I'll just come out and say it: my favorite editor is Visual Studio Not to be overly pedantic, but your favorite IDE is Visual Studio, and you just happen to use whatever crappy editor component comes bundled with it. If we could have full-blown Vim embedded inside IDEs instead of good-but-incomplete plugins which merely give you some of the key mappings, I'd be elated and couldn't see why anyone would stick with the…
One with Vim
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Re: One with Vim
#72Am I foolish for not believing the vi/vim hype? I understand that it's been around for as long as rocks, and that it's quite handy since it's available everywhere. I use it daily, in fact, but rarely for more than basic editing. I'll just come out and say it: my favorite editor is Visual Studio. Sure, it's slow to load and rather fat now, but I'm talking solely about the editing functionality. With vim, I have to cli…
I'll just come out and say it: my favorite editor is Visual Studio Not to be overly pedantic, but your favorite IDE is Visual Studio, and you just happen to use whatever crappy editor component comes bundled with it. If we could have full-blown Vim embedded inside IDEs instead of good-but-incomplete plugins which merely give you some of the key mappings, I'd be elated and couldn't see why anyone would stick with the…
Re: One with Vim
#73Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'll just come out and say it: my favorite editor is Visual Studio Not to be overly pedantic, but your favorite IDE is Visual Studio, and you just happen to use whatever crappy editor component comes bundled with it. If we could have full-blown Vim embedded inside IDEs instead of good-but-incomplete plugins which merely give you some of the key mappings, I'd be elated and couldn't see why anyone would stick with the…
I never tried to make it work, but the vim distribution for Windows used to include a COM object which could be used as your Visual Studio editor.
Re: One with Vim
#74Earlier quoted context omitted.
What about the VS editor do you find confusion and painful? Not counting project-related issues (e.g. knowing what project settings to twiddle and how to do so can be difficult to figure out).
.NET Personally, the god-awful slow file switching, frequently-incorrect highlighting, almost totally worthless JavaScript, ASP, and ASP server-side code support, XML comments with no built-in documentation builder nor viewer, text-column editing that's a total joke, and the always-helpful "too many warnings" error are my most recent peeves. I hate VS. With a passion. I cannot believe that such a painful-to-use progr…
For what it's worth, I've always found Microsoft APIs to vary profoundly in terms of usability and (especially) documentation. And MSDN hasn't been directly useful to me since the VS 6.0 days.
Can you give me an example of an editor with better text column editing? I'm not entirely sure what you mean.
Re: One with Vim
#75Re: One with Vim
#76Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've been using FuzzyFileFinderTextmate for a long time. I'm not sure it's still in active development, but it's worked just fine for me; is there a reason for me to switch to Command-T? I also stick to buffers rather than tabs (for terminal/gui consistency) and use buftabs, which I quite like.
You should instead consider switching to the mainline FuzzyFinder instead of the FFTextmate fork. FuzzyFinder is undergoing lots of activity. You can also try using tabs to represent views of several buffers at once -- for example, I use one tab per app when working on Django code. I have the views, models, templates etc. in split buffers inside one tab.
Re: One with Vim
#77Vim is my primary editor but I think the only really good part of vim is the keyboard navigation. The rest could be much better. For example, to this day I haven't figured out an easy, built-in way to copy from one vim window to another. I'd love to have some features of other editors have but the key bindings always hold me back.
Getting to the point, it is easy to copy and paste between windows using the system buffer. Just map copy and paste to something easy and familiar, say Ctrl-C/V/X, and go on with your life. I'm sure there is a "correct" way to accomplish what you are asking using registers, but quite frankly I don't know it and have never felt the need to learn.
(I know this assumes you are using a graphical Vim.)
Re: One with Vim
#78Earlier quoted context omitted.
.NET Personally, the god-awful slow file switching, frequently-incorrect highlighting, almost totally worthless JavaScript, ASP, and ASP server-side code support, XML comments with no built-in documentation builder nor viewer, text-column editing that's a total joke, and the always-helpful "too many warnings" error are my most recent peeves. I hate VS. With a passion. I cannot believe that such a painful-to-use progr…
It sounds like your most of your complaints are with the .Net platform, library layout, and the compiler. For what it's worth, I've always found Microsoft APIs to vary profoundly in terms of usability and (especially) documentation. And MSDN hasn't been directly useful to me since the VS 6.0 days. Can you give me an example of an editor with better text column editing? I'm not entirely sure what you mean.
Only about half-so. The first paragraph was all about VS exclusively, minus "too many warnings". But due to the issues in .NET, you essentially must use Visual Studio, which makes it at least bearable due to intellisense. But I crash VS fairly often, it eats up a half-gig or more of memory fairly often, it thrashes my hard drive to bits all the time so everything else crawls, and at one job the visual designer started executing code. Those database-filled combo boxes started querying the database right in the designer. This happened 3 or 4 times over a couple months, and could have been catastrophic if any of the times it happened occurred on deleting fields. I will never hook a database directly up to VS, I'll guarantee you that; this was executing our bound events. Imagine if we actually had direct connections to the DB.
So, one that's more specific to VS: the idiotic Web Site "projects" that have zero capabilities, and not even before / after build events to hot-wire your own in. And I dare you to try compiling documentation on a Web Site project. People have been asking for it and attempting to hot-wire their own for years, and they use gigabytes of memory to parse small projects and choke after an hour and give up without anything more helpful than "MSBuild.exe encountered an unexpected error". I suspect very much that the slowness of the only decent help builders is due to the horrendous reflection side of .NET, but that's not VS's fault. Except that VS wants VS-style documentation and won't accept anything else, but nobody can use it.
And, because it's particularly bad, I'll point to the JavaScript support again (2008. I hear 2010 is a bit better). It throws fits and doesn't always even index global functions you just declared (it's entirely broken on the site I'm working on, it simply refuses to parse anything not in assemblies), Intellisense tries to change "$()" to "$addEventHandler()" as you type, and it has the absolute worst indentation of any code editor in existence. None would be better, but it occasionally decides you're not neat enough and imposes "order" on your nicely readable function.
edit: Ooh! Another one! It's such fun to use VS in a multiple-monitor setup. Either you use the annoying "Multiple Document" layout (inner-windows that waste tons of space and fall behind things when the docked windows change), or you use tabs and can't spread to a second screen effectively. Or you launch two versions, and have them throw fits when you build in one, and the other sees things changing. And there is no higher joy than editing web.config while two instances of the same project are running, and watching the Visual Studio hit the fan.
--- I feel better. Thanks :)
Nearly any other programming editor, really. Notepad++ is a good example though, and doesn't require install, so I'd suggest experimenting with that.
In VS: hold alt and select a box of text. Note that you can't select less than a single space wide. You can copy, paste, and delete it. Now try hitting space, or typing something: the whole set is erased, and you start entering text at the top-left corner of what you had selected.
In nearly any other editor: hold alt and select a box. Note that you can select a column "0" wide. Copy, paste, and delete work as expected. But start typing; the vast majority I've used will fill the entire column as you type with what you're typing. Backspace removes line by line after the initial replacement. You edit the column, and everything you do is duplicated to the other lines you had the selection in.
It'd be especially useful for .NET as damn near every useful method returns void: want to populate a list with a few items? Select a few columns, type "list.Add(" and you're most of the way there. Plenty of times the refactoring tools (as good as they are in non-VB languages) don't work if you're not changing everything, and having a column editor would make things a lot faster. Besides, they have half a solution working; why did they stop at the nearly-useless step?
Another handy thing many programming text editors will do, but VS does not: soft-tabs go away with a back-space to the next tab-stop (if you start at one). In VS: keep hitting until you reach what might be another tab stop, there are no indicators for such things. Happy counting!
Re: One with Vim
#79Earlier quoted context omitted.
Visual Studio? Sure, as long as you're only going to be coding on Windows . I'm curious, does anyone use Visual Studio for non-code editing? For example, I'm typing this in Vim right now. I use Vim for lots of meant-for-human-readers text.
> as long as you're only going to be coding on Windows. In the past, I've used VS for editing PHP, which I then deployed to the server using a keyboard shortcut. I understand what you're saying, but I want to point out that VS can be used as an editor even when the target platform isn't MS.
Re: One with Vim
#80Am I foolish for not believing the vi/vim hype? I understand that it's been around for as long as rocks, and that it's quite handy since it's available everywhere. I use it daily, in fact, but rarely for more than basic editing. I'll just come out and say it: my favorite editor is Visual Studio. Sure, it's slow to load and rather fat now, but I'm talking solely about the editing functionality. With vim, I have to cli…
gvim has menus and the keyboard-reinforcing shortcut hints. Also, you can copy/paste with other windows (which is why I started using it over vim).
As to copy/paste, does that depend on the platform? I use vim in a terminal on Linux and Ctl+Shft+C/Ctl+Shft+V on selected text works fine for clipboard transfers. I don't use vim on Windows often enough to remember how things work there, however, and the article that prompted this discussion was focused on Mac usage.