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Nostalgia for Minecraft

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Re: Nostalgia for Minecraft

#61

Post by sansnomme »

MaxLeiter wrote: post #57

I really think Minecraft mods are an underused method for teaching programming. I first got into programming in 7th grade developing mods. Times have changed, but ~5 years ago there were great tutorials, documentation, and good support channels (IRC) for modders. If regular development is too complicated, there are mods that add programmable computers (Lua, iirc). You can use them to mine, build, automate, or in the…

The most popular variety of Minecraft modding frameworks, Forge, is non-trivial. Think Android Java level of boilerplate and equally terrible homebrewed build tooling involving a ton of groovy. The developer friendly modding systems tend to be server-side only e.g. Bukkit. The classic "fun" mods like Buildcraft, Thaumcraft, and the grandparent of all Redstone mods, Redpower, are all Forge mods involving a ton of duplicated client-server code. Unless you enjoy IAbstractSingletonProxyFactoryBean Enterprise Java, coding Minecraft mods is a far cry from the UX modern engines like Unity provides.

Source of one of the most popular mods:

https://github.com/AppliedEnergistics/Applied-Energistics-2

Other examples: https://github.com/agaricusb/ForgeMod/wiki/List-of-Open-Sour...

How people usually run mods (in packs): https://www.curseforge.com/minecraft/modpacks/ftb-official-p...

Open source alternative client: https://multimc.org/

The core tooling that helps with modding:

https://minecraft.gamepedia.com/Programs_and_editors/Mod_Cod...

It's a set of decompilation scripts included with most modding frameworks. Not officially endorsed by Mojang but the developer is a Mojang employee.

Re: Nostalgia for Minecraft

#62

Post by baby »

nostromo wrote: post #6

It’s frustrating how Minecraft’s potential hasn’t been realized under Microsoft. The game has such huge potential and tremendous goodwill, and it’s been so stagnant since the acquisition.

They are mostly working on Minecraft 2 which will be a massive multiplayer world.

Re: Nostalgia for Minecraft

#63

Post by HeadsUpHigh »

willis936 wrote: post #29
bengarvey wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know. They've added a ton of underwater content, new structures, mobs (bees, foxes, llamas, phantoms, drowns, etc), sunken ships and treasure maps. If anything, they've had a better release cycle since the acquisition.

What the game really needs is what was promised ages ago: a mod API on the C++ edition.

Yea let's actually make the C++ edition playable first. Have you noticed how the cursor acceleration is actually like a joystick? I play on a computer for a reason, I don't want console nonsense creeping on me. Same goes for the whole UI. Also no linux version.

Re: Nostalgia for Minecraft

#64

Post by zeta0134 »

codeulike wrote: post #56
nostromo wrote: post #6

It’s frustrating how Minecraft’s potential hasn’t been realized under Microsoft. The game has such huge potential and tremendous goodwill, and it’s been so stagnant since the acquisition.

Didn't they unify everything so all the different clients (desktop, mobile etc) can log into the same worlds? That would have been a hell of a lot of work.

No, not really. There's a "Windows" version for Windows-based desktops that can co-mingle with the other C++ versions, but the main version of the game is still based on Java, with the features being ported to the various console versions shortly after. The Java version remains the only way to play Minecraft on Mac and Linux, for example, and it's also where pretty much the entire modding scene lives.

It's a little complicated from the outside looking in, since the base game is very similar on the surface, but there are major technical differences between the platforms that would make true cross-platform very difficult.

EDIT: The Minecraft Wiki has an excellent overview of all the various platforms. Check out the sidebar on the right for a breakdown. Generally, the "Bedrock" edition is what's on most consoles that are still being supported, and I ... think it has cross-platform multiplayer support? I play on PC so I am not super familiar with the details on console.

https://minecraft.gamepedia.com/Minecraft_Wiki

Re: Nostalgia for Minecraft

#65

Post by linuxhansl »

There is also https://www.minetest.net/. It's fully open source and free, and although it is written in C++ it has a Lua modding API with many mods.

Minetest itself is just the engine with basic functionality such as terrain generation and basic physics. Mobs, and other things are added via mods. Mods can be installed manually or in-game from https://content.minetest.net/.

Re: Nostalgia for Minecraft

#66

Post by TillE »

blotter_paper wrote: post #36
Razengan wrote: post #3

A multiplayer persistent world like Minecraft with physics would be amazing, and probably replicate Minecraft's success. e.g. If I chop down a tree at the top of a hill it could roll down and potentially wreck your house. Or causing cave-ins and avalanches from indiscriminate mining. Building dams and rerouting rivers. Building realistic defenses and then siege weapons. Fun Add in critter breeding and predation for d…

> So if you slay too many Gorgs soon there would be none left. Leave them alone and they'll eat all the Fraggles. Players would form culling expeditions every week. [...] I think the venerable Ultima Online had a few features like that, or was supposed to, not completely sure. Ultima Online tried to have such an ecology, but the players didn't react to it as described despite the game designers giving players minimal…

That was in 1997, a time when nearly all players were using dialup modems and server hardware was pitifully slow compared to today's. The attempted ecology was no doubt very simple.

UO's original designer, Raph Koster, recently announced a new MMO project where he intends to revisit many of those old simulationist ideas.

Re: Nostalgia for Minecraft

#67

Post by cookie_monsta »

DonHopkins wrote: post #39
nottorp wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never let realism get in the way of game play...

https://medium.com/@donhopkins/designing-user-interfaces-to-... >Some muckety-muck architecture magazine was interviewing Will Wright about SimCity, and they asked him a question something like “which ontological urban paradigm most influenced your design of the simulator, the Exo-Hamiltonian Pattern Language Movement, or the Intra-Urban Deconstructionist Sub-Culture Hypothesis?” He replied, “I just kind of optimized…

This is a bit misleading. From what I've read, the modeling in sim city is heavily influenced by Urban Dynamics by Jay Forrester, a 1969 book which was highly regarded in urban planning circles when it came out and has since fallen out of favour [1].

The "optimise for gameplay" quote was in reference to how developers decide between two equally valid but conflicting outcomes to a given scenario.[2]

[1] https://logicmag.io/play/model-metropolis/

[2] https://www.princeton.edu/~starr/17star.html

Re: Nostalgia for Minecraft

#68

Post by Razengan »

PudgePacket wrote: post #43
Razengan wrote: post #3

A multiplayer persistent world like Minecraft with physics would be amazing, and probably replicate Minecraft's success. e.g. If I chop down a tree at the top of a hill it could roll down and potentially wreck your house. Or causing cave-ins and avalanches from indiscriminate mining. Building dams and rerouting rivers. Building realistic defenses and then siege weapons. Fun Add in critter breeding and predation for d…

A township tale has persistent world with physics, not exactly minecraft though https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfgjJOUW_KY .

Yes! That's somewhat better than what I had in mind! (the granularity of chopping down individual branches)

Re: Nostalgia for Minecraft

#69

Post by willis936 »

HeadsUpHigh wrote: post #63
willis936 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What the game really needs is what was promised ages ago: a mod API on the C++ edition.

Yea let's actually make the C++ edition playable first. Have you noticed how the cursor acceleration is actually like a joystick? I play on a computer for a reason, I don't want console nonsense creeping on me. Same goes for the whole UI. Also no linux version.

When it takes 30 minutes to load your mod pack and even with a RAM disk and a healthy number of fast cores on a dedicated server you're still dipping below 20 fps on some occasions, it's time for a leaner edition than java. I'm not even saying java is inherently the problem, but the java edition of minecraft is not performant and the bedrock edition is.

Re: Nostalgia for Minecraft

#70

Post by ss248 »

blotter_paper wrote: post #36
Razengan wrote: post #3

A multiplayer persistent world like Minecraft with physics would be amazing, and probably replicate Minecraft's success. e.g. If I chop down a tree at the top of a hill it could roll down and potentially wreck your house. Or causing cave-ins and avalanches from indiscriminate mining. Building dams and rerouting rivers. Building realistic defenses and then siege weapons. Fun Add in critter breeding and predation for d…

> So if you slay too many Gorgs soon there would be none left. Leave them alone and they'll eat all the Fraggles. Players would form culling expeditions every week. [...] I think the venerable Ultima Online had a few features like that, or was supposed to, not completely sure. Ultima Online tried to have such an ecology, but the players didn't react to it as described despite the game designers giving players minimal…

>because the players were human

It's a very compelling story, but that wasn't actually the case. The real reason was the flawed design. People just had to kill everything for the materials because of the way equipment was implemented.

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