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Nostalgia for Minecraft

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Re: Nostalgia for Minecraft

#31
Interesting article, the author kind of gripes at the end that open world games like Minecraft and Roblox eventually devolve into a competition among players for points, achievements, and status.

While that is true in many cases, so is society in general, and I think that occurs when people accept rules that limit what they create and discover in the world. 'Mini-games' are all about points and status, servers with economies result in play that is all about selling goods and accumulating wealth.

What the author doesn't mention is the side channel (typically discord) on which players are communicating and socializing.

Re: Nostalgia for Minecraft

#32
This raises some interesting points about social dynamics that emerge in creation-oriented engines like Minecraft/Roblox based on how their different business models work.

Roblox sounds like a place where a sort of creative hustle underlies the whole experience, where everyone's creative experience is about trying to figure out what they can get from others. It's full of in-app purchases, by way of people's creations.

Minecraft, meanwhile, sounds like a more open-ended collaborative experience where people create for the sake of creating, and the worst negative externality is some people do it to gain views on Youtube. There's no in-app purchases, just the upfront fee paid to Microsoft.

One thrust of the piece is that playing Roblox promotes "indoctrination into entrepreneurship for children", by way of many of the 'tycoon' style games.

Author also points out how accruing possessions is a large part of Roblox: "Compared with Minecraft, most Roblox games are highly individualistic and use private property as their main incentive rather than skill-building or a sense of common good."

Author then frames Roblox as operating a kind of multilevel marketing scheme, where everyone's hustling to make game modes to get game currency from others, and it all flows up to Roblox. It may not match an MLM perfectly, but it really made me think about how games are places where a lot of these really negative ideas from the offline world (like MLMs, gambling, etc) can appear in similar form in game worlds.

The author goes into a digression about streamers and creators showing off their work on Youtube, and that being something that sort of sullies the purity of these creative mediums. I don't see that as particularly unique to these games though, as that's part of the broader trend of 'life as performance' which exists everywhere in social media (see also Instagram, etc).

The last paragraph is great: "By enabling self-defined goals and DIY accumulation of skills and resources, Minecraft once seemed to promise fun without fixed form, without ownership, without competition and hierarchy. Roblox has no such pretense. Though its premise of blurring the line between player and creator may seem democratizing, it transforms conventional gameplay into entrepreneurial striving while indoctrinating young children into capitalist society’s hierarchical scoreboards, its fantasy of being the best by having the most."

Is this all just a reflection of adding in-app purchases with a % going to creators? Feels like it.

Re: Nostalgia for Minecraft

#33
post #3

A multiplayer persistent world like Minecraft with physics would be amazing, and probably replicate Minecraft's success. e.g. If I chop down a tree at the top of a hill it could roll down and potentially wreck your house. Or causing cave-ins and avalanches from indiscriminate mining. Building dams and rerouting rivers. Building realistic defenses and then siege weapons. Fun Add in critter breeding and predation for d…

There was a game or tech-demo called "upvoid miner" a few years ago. It had worldgeneration similar to minecraft and proper physics with rolling tree logs. It allowed arbitrarily shaped terrain and I think liquid physics were worked on. But sadly the studio had to shut down due to not getting enough sales. I think you can still download it and test out the free tech demo though.

Re: Nostalgia for Minecraft

#34
Minecraft is the game that made me feel old - and that I was genuinely missing out on something.

I seemingly signed up my €15 in 2011 and had fun. Then forgot about it.

Then I remember when MS bought it for silly money. Full on WTF? headspin.

Then I visited my former-bridesmaid, who shared with me what she'd built on her ipad. I'd no idea what she was talking about, quickly stopped randomly hitting stuff when her upset overcame her politeness and she told me to stop. She really cared about what she'd built.

I can still only wrap my head around it as "infinite lego with a community" - but that's pretty damn impressive.

Re: Nostalgia for Minecraft

#35
post #34

Minecraft is the game that made me feel old - and that I was genuinely missing out on something. I seemingly signed up my €15 in 2011 and had fun. Then forgot about it. Then I remember when MS bought it for silly money. Full on WTF? headspin. Then I visited my former-bridesmaid, who shared with me what she'd built on her ipad. I'd no idea what she was talking about, quickly stopped randomly hitting stuff when her ups…

> Then I remember when MS bought it for silly money. Full on WTF? headspin.

Considering Minecraft has over 176 million copies sold, not to mention the endless amount of merchandise and spin-offs I'm sure MS is getting royalties on, it looks like they got a bargain at $2.5B.

Re: Nostalgia for Minecraft

#36
post #3

A multiplayer persistent world like Minecraft with physics would be amazing, and probably replicate Minecraft's success. e.g. If I chop down a tree at the top of a hill it could roll down and potentially wreck your house. Or causing cave-ins and avalanches from indiscriminate mining. Building dams and rerouting rivers. Building realistic defenses and then siege weapons. Fun Add in critter breeding and predation for d…

> So if you slay too many Gorgs soon there would be none left. Leave them alone and they'll eat all the Fraggles. Players would form culling expeditions every week. [...] I think the venerable Ultima Online had a few features like that, or was supposed to, not completely sure.

Ultima Online tried to have such an ecology, but the players didn't react to it as described despite the game designers giving players minimal rewards for killing herbivores so that they would focus on killing the carnivores. Instead the players indiscriminately killed both the carnivores and the herbivores, because the players were human. The ecology was removed.

https://youtu.be/KFNxJVTJleE

Re: Nostalgia for Minecraft

#37
post #35
post #34

Minecraft is the game that made me feel old - and that I was genuinely missing out on something. I seemingly signed up my €15 in 2011 and had fun. Then forgot about it. Then I remember when MS bought it for silly money. Full on WTF? headspin. Then I visited my former-bridesmaid, who shared with me what she'd built on her ipad. I'd no idea what she was talking about, quickly stopped randomly hitting stuff when her ups…

> Then I remember when MS bought it for silly money. Full on WTF? headspin. Considering Minecraft has over 176 million copies sold, not to mention the endless amount of merchandise and spin-offs I'm sure MS is getting royalties on, it looks like they got a bargain at $2.5B.

Maybe I didn't make my point clearly enough. To me - it was a silly fun game I spent an evening with - and then never touched again. The whole "becoming a thing" completely missed me. I maybe say it was on Android, or Xbox - but being an old fart completely missed the fact that millions had turned up and were playing it (and PewDiePie was a name of somebody etc etc)

Re: Nostalgia for Minecraft

#38
post #3

A multiplayer persistent world like Minecraft with physics would be amazing, and probably replicate Minecraft's success. e.g. If I chop down a tree at the top of a hill it could roll down and potentially wreck your house. Or causing cave-ins and avalanches from indiscriminate mining. Building dams and rerouting rivers. Building realistic defenses and then siege weapons. Fun Add in critter breeding and predation for d…

>>A multiplayer persistent world like Minecraft with physics would be amazing, and probably replicate Minecraft's success.

That is something that I'm actually trying to create. Although my focus is a world where you can create machines that are simulated by a physics engine. Users will be able to create humanoid robots, a mechanical giant clock, etc. Think Minecraft for machines. I'm still in the early stages right now so don't really have much to show anybody yet but that is the plan.

I already tried once[1] without success so this is my second go at it.

This is my first attempt from several years ago:

[1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRWENHLgEnk

Re: Nostalgia for Minecraft

#39
post #16
post #3

A multiplayer persistent world like Minecraft with physics would be amazing, and probably replicate Minecraft's success. e.g. If I chop down a tree at the top of a hill it could roll down and potentially wreck your house. Or causing cave-ins and avalanches from indiscriminate mining. Building dams and rerouting rivers. Building realistic defenses and then siege weapons. Fun Add in critter breeding and predation for d…

Never let realism get in the way of game play...

https://medium.com/@donhopkins/designing-user-interfaces-to-...

>Some muckety-muck architecture magazine was interviewing Will Wright about SimCity, and they asked him a question something like “which ontological urban paradigm most influenced your design of the simulator, the Exo-Hamiltonian Pattern Language Movement, or the Intra-Urban Deconstructionist Sub-Culture Hypothesis?” He replied, “I just kind of optimized for game play.”

Re: Nostalgia for Minecraft

#40
Both of these games are excellent intros to game development. ROBLOX more so in my opinion - it’s a lot like the old school quake-c modding days and such.

I tried to get my kids to play around with web pages and tutorials, but it wasn’t until they wanted to create mini games in ROBLOX that they got busy.

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