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For Quebec, a French Woman May Not Be French Enough

nytimes.com

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Re: For Quebec, a French Woman May Not Be French Enough

#71

Post by floki999 »

whytaka wrote: post #34
floki999 wrote: post #26

Quebec language rules and the minions that enforce them can be quite pathetic. Just a couple of months ago, the debate be was about the right of shop-keepers being able to greet their customers in both English and French, or only in French. Totally ridiculous. I am also a native French speaker from Europe, and left Montreal because of the backward mentality. I totally respect Quebec’s need to protect their heritage,…

> they took perfectly good French and turned it into something that is often unrecognizable. As I understand it, you’ve got that switched. International French, the French of metropolitan France, is the one that had changed dramatically.

You are correct - I was making light of this overly serious subject

Re: For Quebec, a French Woman May Not Be French Enough

#72

Post by floki999 »

samat wrote: post #44
floki999 wrote: post #26

Quebec language rules and the minions that enforce them can be quite pathetic. Just a couple of months ago, the debate be was about the right of shop-keepers being able to greet their customers in both English and French, or only in French. Totally ridiculous. I am also a native French speaker from Europe, and left Montreal because of the backward mentality. I totally respect Quebec’s need to protect their heritage,…

Nearly half of a population of Riga has Russian as their native language. And yet it’s forbidden to greet customers in Russian for any shopkeeper in Riga.

That’s quite sad..

Re: For Quebec, a French Woman May Not Be French Enough

#73

Post by angry_octet »

kalenx wrote: post #68
angry_octet wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try wearing a turban.

Well, it depends. If you want a dispense to wear a hard hat of a construction site because of your turban then yes, this may come as a problem: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/quebec-court-of-appe...

If you were in Québec you couldn't miss seeing all the anti-Singh (NDP leader who happens to be Sikh) comments, many referring to his turban.

(It is now illegal in QC to be a public servant and wear e.g. a turban, yarmulke, crucifix, etc. Public buildings are still adorned with crucifexes and saint's names for reasons of 'cultural respect'.)

Re: For Quebec, a French Woman May Not Be French Enough

#74

Post by 908B64B197 »

Throwaway; Response posted in case someone Google this and find this thread (Happy to see this is off the front page as this type of content doesn't belong on HN).

What's interesting with this story is to see the different media coverage it received in French and English media. The French ones gave a little more context into why her application was initially denied. Basically she didn't fill the application properly.

I've known multiple people who used the exact same program as her to immigrate. There is no language requirement for courses or thesis. However, having followed all courses in French and written a full thesis in French removes the requirement to pass a standardized French test (think TOEFL). According to the CBC article in French[1] she was warned when she started writing it that unless she translated the chapters written in English she would potentially have to pass the Standardized French test as it wouldn't be adequate to waive the requirement for a test. She ignored this warning and decided to submit her application anyways.

Later, as warned by the university officials, she received a request for evidence. She either had to pass a Standardized test OR demonstrate three years of high school level education in French (from the folks that I know who went through this, a simple copy of a French high school transcript is good enough).

She had two months to give a response but apparently waited 4 months (it's not completely obvious from the article and completely omitted from the English CBC news one [2]) to respond.

The ultimate reason why she was denied is never explicitly stated. It seems that she switched jobs while her application was pending and became a freelance illustrator. The immigration program she applied for specifically prohibits self-employment. Either that or she sent the required evidence too late and they closed her file.

tl;dr : Her paperwork was incomplete. She was warned several times and ignored a request for evidence for several months & switched to a job specifically not covered by the immigration program she was applying to.

Case closed. [1] https://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle/1378665/immigration-que... [2] https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/french-thesis-immigr...

Re: For Quebec, a French Woman May Not Be French Enough

#75

Post by 908B64B197 »

Waterluvian wrote: post #4
dbieber wrote: post #3

The decision has already been overturned: https://toronto.citynews.ca/2019/11/09/quebec-overturns-deci...

Mistakes like this happen all the time. What's truly telling is how fast it was reversed. One could argue its only because it got national coverage but I don't think we know for sure. Ultimately I don't think it matters unless we start seeing a recurring pattern.

I must note that she did end up sending the documents the government asked her back in 2018.

They merely reopened the case and saw that there were no missing documents. She could have gotten the same result by re-submitting the application instead of going to the media.

This whole story sounds more like some politicians are trying to get a spin out of it.

Re: For Quebec, a French Woman May Not Be French Enough

#76

Post by 908B64B197 »

jefft255 wrote: post #5
Waterluvian wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mistakes like this happen all the time. What's truly telling is how fast it was reversed. One could argue its only because it got national coverage but I don't think we know for sure. Ultimately I don't think it matters unless we start seeing a recurring pattern.

Indeed let's hope it was basically a mistake; right now I have a few French (from France) friends doing phds at the same university, and I'm pretty sure that they will have English chapters in their thesis (research paper insertion).

The student in the article was warned years ago her thesis wouldn't waive her requirement to pass a standardized test.

All they have to do is add either a test or transcripts for 3 years of high school in French. Over time I've known many folks who obtained permanent residency through the exact same program (some of them after completing PhD almost exclusively in English). All they had to do was a test.

Re: For Quebec, a French Woman May Not Be French Enough

#77

Post by 908B64B197 »

jefft255 wrote: post #2

I find this extremely embarrassing. I'm all for the protection of French in Quebec; but stupid decisions like this makes us look bad internationally and make no sense at all. I went to Laval University too, and guess what: my whole thesis, not just one chapter, was in English. Yet, I didn't speak English until I was 18. Am I not French enough for Quebec? I hope the employee who made this call will get in trouble. Eng…

What's embarrassing is the political spin CBC (and the NYT) gave to that story and the multiple omissions.

All this girl had to do is pass a standardized test and add it to her application. She was warned when she started her PhD program years ago.

Re: For Quebec, a French Woman May Not Be French Enough

#78

Post by moltar »

School-Cotton wrote: post #32
throwpupper wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Quebec City they are loudly proud of how many Anglos they have driven away. They pretty much purged the city of anything non-French in the two last decades and are displaying it as a success story. For me, displacing large communities based on their mother tongue is nothing to be proud of. Be it either way.

Citation needed? I'll concede that I haven't lived there so I could be wrong, but I've been to Quebec city twice, including once with people who spoke no French at all, and never felt any hostility. Again, I'm not disputing that it could be different for the local Anglo minority, but I'd need to see some sources before I believe that you're not exaggerating.

There’s a difference between a tourist and a local. As a tourist you bring dollars. But try getting any government service in English and you’ll get eye rolls and rude behaviour. Even cops in Montreal will not speak English generally.

Re: For Quebec, a French Woman May Not Be French Enough

#80

Post by School-Cotton »

moltar wrote: post #78
School-Cotton wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Citation needed? I'll concede that I haven't lived there so I could be wrong, but I've been to Quebec city twice, including once with people who spoke no French at all, and never felt any hostility. Again, I'm not disputing that it could be different for the local Anglo minority, but I'd need to see some sources before I believe that you're not exaggerating.

There’s a difference between a tourist and a local. As a tourist you bring dollars. But try getting any government service in English and you’ll get eye rolls and rude behaviour. Even cops in Montreal will not speak English generally.

How many governments around the world provide services in a foreign language?
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