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For Quebec, a French Woman May Not Be French Enough

nytimes.com

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Re: For Quebec, a French Woman May Not Be French Enough

#51

Post by School-Cotton »

dmytroi wrote: post #50
School-Cotton wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where are you coming up with 20 different dialects of French? Are you talking about the various French-based creole languages, which are totally separate languages (e.g., someone from France has essentially no hope of understanding a native Hatian Creole speaker). If that's what you mean it's a bit silly to call them "dialects" instead of "separate languages" because Haitian Creole and French are as different as Engl…

I'm referring to a fact that before economical needs created unified time / measurement system / language, each region had their own language-dialect. For example Gallo-Romance languages and so on [0]. - [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_France

Yes, you're right. And those dialects still exist; I know people (born before WWII in semi-rural areas) whose first language was something so different from the standard that it'd have been very difficult for someone from Paris to understand.

But as far as I know, none of them are spoken in Quebec...

Re: For Quebec, a French Woman May Not Be French Enough

#52

Post by thinkloop »

emilfihlman wrote: post #45
gpm wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something like that... and since the referendums happened when Quebec was most inclined to separate (in recent memory) that's really a good sign that > 50% of Quebec would prefer not to.

Are you really thinking that half the province against each other is a good sign? Please.

It's much less than half now, that was at the ultimate peak - was the point he was making.

Re: For Quebec, a French Woman May Not Be French Enough

#53

Post by gpm »

emilfihlman wrote: post #45
gpm wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something like that... and since the referendums happened when Quebec was most inclined to separate (in recent memory) that's really a good sign that > 50% of Quebec would prefer not to.

Are you really thinking that half the province against each other is a good sign? Please.

Like I said, support for that movement is way less than half now, the first result I found from a quick search [0] suggests 18% as of 2015.

[0] https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/quebec-angus-reid-ca...

I think a majority vote choosing to stay is a hell of a lot better than "forced to stay by the military"... which is what you'd get from the post I originally replied to. And it's not "against eachother" so much as "politely thinking that we'd be better of splitting the country in two" for most of them.

Re: For Quebec, a French Woman May Not Be French Enough

#54

Post by Gunax »

School-Cotton wrote: post #41
Gibbon1 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You have a right to live in Québec. But for the moment, not a right to demand that businesses or government agencies communicate with you in English. Just wow how utterly pissant.

Would you demand that businesses or government agencies communicate with you in English in Spain or China? If so, sure, you have a consistent position at least. If not, why is Quebec different?

We are a bilingual country. The rest of Canada bends over backwards to offer services in French which are seldom utilized. I would not ask for English in Spain or China because it isn't an official language there.

We have a national law that all students--anywhere in the country--can receive instruction in either English or French--but this has been consistently undermined in Quebec. They have made it so arduous to qualify for English school* that nearly all English speakers will not qualify.

That is just one example of the double standard. If you want the country to be bilingual, then it has to work both ways.

* The rule is something like "Both of your parents must be native Quebec and both must have attended English school in Quebec for their entire childhood. Any deviation from this and you cannot qualify to English school". So anyone who immigrates from the rest of Canada, or has one French/one English parent is disqualified.

Re: For Quebec, a French Woman May Not Be French Enough

#55

Post by Gibbon1 »

School-Cotton wrote: post #41
Gibbon1 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You have a right to live in Québec. But for the moment, not a right to demand that businesses or government agencies communicate with you in English. Just wow how utterly pissant.

Would you demand that businesses or government agencies communicate with you in English in Spain or China? If so, sure, you have a consistent position at least. If not, why is Quebec different?

I'm in California. We bend over backwards to make sure that our citizens and visitors language needs are supported.

For instance, Ca voter registration in tagalog.

https://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/voting-resources/voting-cal...

Re: For Quebec, a French Woman May Not Be French Enough

#56

Post by pbourke »

School-Cotton wrote: post #41
Gibbon1 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You have a right to live in Québec. But for the moment, not a right to demand that businesses or government agencies communicate with you in English. Just wow how utterly pissant.

Would you demand that businesses or government agencies communicate with you in English in Spain or China? If so, sure, you have a consistent position at least. If not, why is Quebec different?

Spain or China are not parts of Canada, where the official languages are French and English

Re: For Quebec, a French Woman May Not Be French Enough

#57

Post by School-Cotton »

pbourke wrote: post #56
School-Cotton wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you demand that businesses or government agencies communicate with you in English in Spain or China? If so, sure, you have a consistent position at least. If not, why is Quebec different?

Spain or China are not parts of Canada, where the official languages are French and English

Spain is part of the EU, where English is one of the official languages. But English is not an official language of Spain.

Quebec is part of Canada, where English is one of the official languages. But English is not an official language of Quebec.

Re: For Quebec, a French Woman May Not Be French Enough

#58

Post by throwpupper »

throwpupper wrote: post #22
School-Cotton wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's perfectly normal for people in a small enclave nestled in the heart of the giant Anglo-saxon hegemon to feel insecure about the long-term survival of their unique language and culture and want to take extra steps to preserve it. I'm completely sympathetic with them refusing to provide services in a foreign language when that language is a serious threat to their existence as a cultural group. Look what h…

In Quebec City they are loudly proud of how many Anglos they have driven away. They pretty much purged the city of anything non-French in the two last decades and are displaying it as a success story. For me, displacing large communities based on their mother tongue is nothing to be proud of. Be it either way.

It was an exhibition on the top floor of the tallest building in the city. It was comparing Montreal to Quebec City trying to draw more people and business to Quebec City. One of the "selling" points was a statistic saying that:

1. Montreal has about 50/50 French/English split whereas in Quebec City it's something like 98/2 French/English. Yes, that was presented as an advantage.

2. There was a graph showing how the city is becoming more and more French-speaking over time. Again, proudly presenting that fact as a selling point.

I never said they are openly hostile but by hindering any English business and opressive language laws they drove whole communities of English speakers away. That's a fact.

Re: For Quebec, a French Woman May Not Be French Enough

#59

Post by throwpupper »

kalenx wrote: post #39
throwpupper wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Quebec City they are loudly proud of how many Anglos they have driven away. They pretty much purged the city of anything non-French in the two last decades and are displaying it as a success story. For me, displacing large communities based on their mother tongue is nothing to be proud of. Be it either way.

That's just a plain lie. Sure, as for literally any other subject, you may find people with extreme views on the topic, but that's what they are: extreme. That doesn't make it the general consensus. Please stop spreading lies like this.

It's not a lie at all.

Re: For Quebec, a French Woman May Not Be French Enough

#60

Post by BrandoElFollito »

I am French, in love with my language which I find to be the most beautiful in the whole universe.

I wrote my PhD thesis entirely in English because this is THE language we communicate in internationally. Sure I world prefer it to be French but it is not.

People who do not see that are still fighting for everything to be in French, in French companies working internationally. The idea is that we are in France and French should not be forced to speak another language in their own country. Yet they choose to work in an international company.

I like the rational approach in Nordic countries who teach English early (we do as well) and do not believe that striking will miraculously make the whole world pamper us.

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