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The FCC Has Fined Robocallers $208M, Collected $6,790

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Re: The FCC Has Fined Robocallers $208M, Collected $6,790

#251

Post by rhizome »

Marsymars wrote: post #198
nobodyandproud wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The lack of political will and the form of legislation are the questions. If the rule is that telcos must eat the cost of a scam, they will drag it out in court and the consumer must still prove it. If the rule is that each robocall that makes it through must be paid by the telcos (take the consumer out of this), then telcos will battle each other to try and insist that the other party is responsible. At some point t…

Set up a government department with a dozen people and a thousand phone lines distributed around the country and with different telcos. Record every call received. Fine telco $100k for every robocall. Increase fines steeply over time.

Way too complicated. Much easier would be to get a warrant for a trap and trace on the line known to be receiving these calls. Then disconnect the robocall lines.

Re: The FCC Has Fined Robocallers $208M, Collected $6,790

#252

Post by notelonmusk »

smabie wrote: post #141

While robocalls are annoying, what's the moral justification for making this illegal? If a person is allowed to call you, why can't a computer? Also the line is getting blurred recently, so it seems like a problematic distinction at this point in time.

> what's the moral justification for making this illegal?

You got a number I can send you the answers to? \s

Re: The FCC Has Fined Robocallers $208M, Collected $6,790

#253

Post by busyant »

elif wrote: post #202
erichocean wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s amusing to see people think there is some hard technical problem here. One of the primary users of robocalls are politicians. I'm sure they'll get right on legislating against it. /sarc

(US) Politicians already gave themselves a loophole into unlimited unsolicited spam. So cleaning up other spammers would strengthen the quality of their spam channel, as consumers would be less jaded/more likely to pick up.

My non-tech savvy 82yo father has made a similar point to me: all these garbage phone calls that I get every day make me not trust ANY phone call that I receive. You'd think this would upset legitimate businesses that need to make calls.

Re: The FCC Has Fined Robocallers $208M, Collected $6,790

#254

Post by michaelt »

ikeboy wrote: post #226
michaelt wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So if I buy a $20 prepaid cell phone for cash and use it to robocall ten of my friends, they'd share $1000?

A network shouldn't allow a $20 prepaid cell phone to spoof numbers. Give it one number, if it starts spamming it can easily be blocked.

Yes, my $20 prepaid cell phone would only have one number, and would be blocked after my friends report the robocalls.

But whence comes the $1000 my friends are now owed, for the calls made before their complaints were filed?

Re: The FCC Has Fined Robocallers $208M, Collected $6,790

#255

Post by rhizome »

gowld wrote: post #228
ravenstine wrote: post #42

I see people here saying that spoofed numbers is the problem. Maybe it's a big part of it, but at the end of the day, the phone companies are complicit with the criminals because there's no good reason that these robocalls can't be treated like a DoS attack. These crooks make millions , of calls every year. My first employer was apparently making robocalls, though none of us were aware of it(there was a call center w…

What's wrong with relying on your terminal device to decide whether to ring the call? That's the definition of a smartphone . In fact, Android has native spam blocking: https://www.forbes.com/sites/brookecrothers/2018/12/30/in-20... but it's quite reasonable for you to install whatever filtering app you choose. If you don't feel safe installing software on your phone, that's a problem with your phone OS.

Now pretend that you're providing solutions for devices that aren't cellphones.

Re: The FCC Has Fined Robocallers $208M, Collected $6,790

#256

Post by EB66 »

closeparen wrote: post #243
Scoundreller wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So then T-Mob calls the NOC at C. Tells them to get this stopped and they have 24 hours, or they'll depeer. 6 hour later, C's NOC calls B's NOC, saying to knock it off, and they have 18 hours or they're getting booted. 6 hours later, B's NOC calls A's NOC, saying to knock it off, and they have 12 hours to figure it out or they're getting booted. In under 12 more hours, A cuts off 111-1111. If peeringDB is to be belie…

How does T-Mobile know there's a problem worth calling the C NOC about? One way is to see the frequency and duration of calls. Lots of very short calls indicate spammy behavior. So if you are B, you offer SIP trunking at below cost to legitimate customers, so that you can mix their call flow with the much more lucrative, 100% robocall traffic from A, and thereby stay on favorable terms with C. I worked in this busine…

> How does T-Mobile know there's a problem worth calling the C NOC about? One way is to see the frequency and duration of calls.

Or make it easier for consumers to report spam calls. For example, dial *666 after hanging up on the spammer and it reports the last call as spam. Enough abuse reports originating from a particular carrier and T-Mobile knows there's a problem. That's basically how it works for email spam and other forms of Internet abuse.

Re: The FCC Has Fined Robocallers $208M, Collected $6,790

#257

Post by rhizome »

moron4hire wrote: post #162
ravenstine wrote: post #42

I see people here saying that spoofed numbers is the problem. Maybe it's a big part of it, but at the end of the day, the phone companies are complicit with the criminals because there's no good reason that these robocalls can't be treated like a DoS attack. These crooks make millions , of calls every year. My first employer was apparently making robocalls, though none of us were aware of it(there was a call center w…

Isn't modern phone infrastructure all over IP for the backbone, anyway? I was under the impression that it was only the line to the house that was analog.

No, not all. You can still get copper-wire POTS lines.

Re: The FCC Has Fined Robocallers $208M, Collected $6,790

#258

Post by toss1 »

Obviously, from only the headline, issuing fines is failing to do the work, with a shortfall on the scale of 5 orders of magnitude.

The FCC needs to start criminal prosecutions, including for officers in the major carriers who continue to enable these crimes. The massive scale of the waste of resources in unconscionable, even beyond the scale of the illegal scams.

This is not a hard technical problem to solve, only requires a bit of will. Perhaps implement a system of verified call call sources, all un-verified call sources pay 10¢/call -- probably instantly uneconomical. Until then, jail for these criminals, and by that, I mean the officers of the scam companies, not the call center workers

Re: The FCC Has Fined Robocallers $208M, Collected $6,790

#259

Post by cameldrv »

atoav wrote: post #244
nobodyandproud wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup. It’s amusing to see people think there is some hard technical problem here. Tie the problem of robocalls to the telcos losing money, and this problem will solve itself in months.

I got two unwanted robocalls in the last twenty years (central europe). This seems like a profoundly american issue.

Lucky you. Approximately no one in the countries that these calls originate from speaks any central European language, so they don't call.

Re: The FCC Has Fined Robocallers $208M, Collected $6,790

#260

Post by ikeboy »

michaelt wrote: post #254
ikeboy wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A network shouldn't allow a $20 prepaid cell phone to spoof numbers. Give it one number, if it starts spamming it can easily be blocked.

Yes, my $20 prepaid cell phone would only have one number, and would be blocked after my friends report the robocalls. But whence comes the $1000 my friends are now owed, for the calls made before their complaints were filed?

I specified the fine would be for spoofing that broke the laws.

That would eliminate spoofing, which would make it much easier to identify where the bad calls are actually coming from.

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