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The FCC Has Fined Robocallers $208M, Collected $6,790

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241–250 of 432 posts

Re: The FCC Has Fined Robocallers $208M, Collected $6,790

#241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A perfectly valid construction. My science teacher once insisted rivers couldn't flow north because on a globe, north is up. So, yeah, education is a bit of a mixed bag.

> My science teacher once insisted rivers couldn't flow north because on a globe, north is up. Did he just not consider, say, the Nile?

Or the Rhine. Maybe there is no north bound river where the GP lived?

Re: The FCC Has Fined Robocallers $208M, Collected $6,790

#242
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The phone company has a source number for calls coming from outside their system for billing purposes. I want that number. Edit: At a minimum, an out of system call should display what system / exchange it originates from. That at least helps solve neighbor spoofing.

Yeah it's bonkers they allow this still. No good actor ISP is going to knowingly let improperly sourced traffic transit networks...

Yeah, one would think that a national phone carrier would only send through properly sourced data. But I can tell you from experience that no, they let through garbage. I regularly see "phone numbers" like "11111111111111" or "0000000000" or even "01120155512121234". They act like they're the phone company and don't have to care ...

Re: The FCC Has Fined Robocallers $208M, Collected $6,790

#243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because there's no good reason that these robocalls can't be treated like a DoS attack The problem here is that the origin can be spoofed. You are imagining a system where a telco like T-Mobile connects the caller directly to you. That's not how it works. The connection chain could look like this. bad caller 111-1111 -> A -> B -> C -> T-Mobile -> you 999-9999 All T-Mobile knows is that 111-1111 is calling 999-9999…

So then T-Mob calls the NOC at C. Tells them to get this stopped and they have 24 hours, or they'll depeer. 6 hour later, C's NOC calls B's NOC, saying to knock it off, and they have 18 hours or they're getting booted. 6 hours later, B's NOC calls A's NOC, saying to knock it off, and they have 12 hours to figure it out or they're getting booted. In under 12 more hours, A cuts off 111-1111. If peeringDB is to be belie…

How does T-Mobile know there's a problem worth calling the C NOC about? One way is to see the frequency and duration of calls. Lots of very short calls indicate spammy behavior. So if you are B, you offer SIP trunking at below cost to legitimate customers, so that you can mix their call flow with the much more lucrative, 100% robocall traffic from A, and thereby stay on favorable terms with C.

I worked in this business briefly, the economics are fascinating. Your average mom and pop restaurant is very likely buying its VoIP transit from an entity like "B" in this story.

Re: The FCC Has Fined Robocallers $208M, Collected $6,790

#244

I see people here saying that spoofed numbers is the problem. Maybe it's a big part of it, but at the end of the day, the phone companies are complicit with the criminals because there's no good reason that these robocalls can't be treated like a DoS attack. These crooks make millions , of calls every year. My first employer was apparently making robocalls, though none of us were aware of it(there was a call center w…

Yup. It’s amusing to see people think there is some hard technical problem here. Tie the problem of robocalls to the telcos losing money, and this problem will solve itself in months.

I got two unwanted robocalls in the last twenty years (central europe). This seems like a profoundly american issue.

Re: The FCC Has Fined Robocallers $208M, Collected $6,790

#245

I see people here saying that spoofed numbers is the problem. Maybe it's a big part of it, but at the end of the day, the phone companies are complicit with the criminals because there's no good reason that these robocalls can't be treated like a DoS attack. These crooks make millions , of calls every year. My first employer was apparently making robocalls, though none of us were aware of it(there was a call center w…

Isn't modern phone infrastructure all over IP for the backbone, anyway? I was under the impression that it was only the line to the house that was analog.

Digital, yes. IP, unlikely. Given that most of these companies are traditional phone carriers, it is more likely to be ATM (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asynchronous_transfer_mode)

Re: The FCC Has Fined Robocallers $208M, Collected $6,790

#246

I see people here saying that spoofed numbers is the problem. Maybe it's a big part of it, but at the end of the day, the phone companies are complicit with the criminals because there's no good reason that these robocalls can't be treated like a DoS attack. These crooks make millions , of calls every year. My first employer was apparently making robocalls, though none of us were aware of it(there was a call center w…

Hiding the originating number/account is the entire profit center for the LECs. My impression is that they're not going to give it up without legislation.

Re: The FCC Has Fined Robocallers $208M, Collected $6,790

#247
post #228

I see people here saying that spoofed numbers is the problem. Maybe it's a big part of it, but at the end of the day, the phone companies are complicit with the criminals because there's no good reason that these robocalls can't be treated like a DoS attack. These crooks make millions , of calls every year. My first employer was apparently making robocalls, though none of us were aware of it(there was a call center w…

What's wrong with relying on your terminal device to decide whether to ring the call? That's the definition of a smartphone . In fact, Android has native spam blocking: https://www.forbes.com/sites/brookecrothers/2018/12/30/in-20... but it's quite reasonable for you to install whatever filtering app you choose. If you don't feel safe installing software on your phone, that's a problem with your phone OS.

What's wrong is I shouldn't have to, the fact that incoming crap-calls with spoofed IDs get through at all is a problem with the network.

Re: The FCC Has Fined Robocallers $208M, Collected $6,790

#248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And then they'll add on a monthly robocall prevention fee to your bill. :P

They're testing the waters for that already, https://www.zdnet.com/article/at-t-to-auto-block-fraud-roboc...

These new telco blockers only work on VOIP lines, not copper-wire POTS phones. The service is not even available for POTS, it's only the major telcos creating a /r/selfhosted RoboKiller who make it available for the kinds of phone lines that go down in a power outage..

Re: The FCC Has Fined Robocallers $208M, Collected $6,790

#249

I see people here saying that spoofed numbers is the problem. Maybe it's a big part of it, but at the end of the day, the phone companies are complicit with the criminals because there's no good reason that these robocalls can't be treated like a DoS attack. These crooks make millions , of calls every year. My first employer was apparently making robocalls, though none of us were aware of it(there was a call center w…

> because there's no good reason that these robocalls can't be treated like a DoS attack The problem here is that the origin can be spoofed. You are imagining a system where a telco like T-Mobile connects the caller directly to you. That's not how it works. The connection chain could look like this. bad caller 111-1111 -> A -> B -> C -> T-Mobile -> you 999-9999 All T-Mobile knows is that 111-1111 is calling 999-9999…

I would pay to have a "AT&T Certified" icon on incoming phone calls. Maybe the carriers can set up peering agreements and both AT&T and Verizon work. The vast majority of people I care about are on those carriers and I can forget about the rest.

It's very hard to reform the whole system, but you have to start somewhere and this could be how.

Re: The FCC Has Fined Robocallers $208M, Collected $6,790

#250
post #37
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the US, where money is speech and one dollar is one vote. Individual consumers don't have enough money to matter compared to BigCorp.

Clinton outspent Trump nearly 2:1 in the last election ($768m, $398m respectively) and still lost. Yes she won the popular vote by about 3m votes but that’s hardly a dollar to vote ratio. People vote their emotions, and emotions are surprisingly difficult to buy.

> People vote their emotions

When its plastered all over TV. We just had elections days ago - obviously turnout is even worse than year than last where the national average was 50%. But nobody was voting emotionally there because largely you weren't voting for people or even positions you knew or recognized. You voted for the names you were familiar with - put in your head by advertising. Because there isn't a large central institution around your county commissioner election where media will give all candidates ample airtime to actually know who they are.

I remember last year my district had a major election for the federal house - I live in PA and due to redistricting by the state supereme court we were having an election without an incumbent. Only 3,000-25,000 people in a district of 250,000 adults watched their public TV debate. The winner was just the guy that outspent his opponent by an order of magnitude via local companies subsidizing his campaign with 10 million bucks.

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