Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The FCC Has Fined Robocallers $208M, Collected $6,790

wsj.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

161–170 of 432 posts

Re: The FCC Has Fined Robocallers $208M, Collected $6,790

#161

Post by stevespang »

ikeboy wrote: post #114

The solution is simple, and I've proposed it before. If someone used spoofing to break the law, there's strict liability for some kind of statutory damages, say $100, applicable to everyone across the chain. I.e. I can sue Verizon for sending the call to my phone, Verizon can sue whoever connected to their network, they can sue whoever spoofed on their network, etc. This will quickly lead to networks requiring proof…

I agree, anyone, everywhere and anywhere in "the chain" is liable immediately - - that will change things promptly as Telecoms will not allow themselves to be liable . . .

Re: The FCC Has Fined Robocallers $208M, Collected $6,790

#162

Post by moron4hire »

ravenstine wrote: post #42

I see people here saying that spoofed numbers is the problem. Maybe it's a big part of it, but at the end of the day, the phone companies are complicit with the criminals because there's no good reason that these robocalls can't be treated like a DoS attack. These crooks make millions , of calls every year. My first employer was apparently making robocalls, though none of us were aware of it(there was a call center w…

Isn't modern phone infrastructure all over IP for the backbone, anyway? I was under the impression that it was only the line to the house that was analog.

Re: The FCC Has Fined Robocallers $208M, Collected $6,790

#163

Post by manigandham »

tempsolution wrote: post #160

Calling is broken. I wished Apple would just add an option "Block all calls unless their number is in contacts". It's ridiculous that this option is only available in Do Not Disturb. It's like Apple was trying to somehow profit from robo-callers. It's time to put calls into the grave. The next step needs to be something like we have for websites. You need to get a personal SSL certificate to call and it will be bound…

That option is in iOS 13, it's called "Silence Unknown Callers":

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207099

Re: The FCC Has Fined Robocallers $208M, Collected $6,790

#164

Post by dredmorbius »

beerandt wrote: post #70
NeedMoreTea wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well there was a guy in the UK who set up a premium number after getting sick of cold sales calls. All companies get his 10p/minute number as contact (he gets 7p of that). Only friends and family get the real underlying number. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-23869462

I like the idea, but it doesn't solve the problem of when your real number makes it onto call lists. But I do like the idea of giving out a 1-900 number to people. It would certainly get some interesting reactions, depending on context.

There are few available phone numbers which aren't already on numerous telemarketing / robospam systems. Exhaustive wardialing is highly tractable.

I've had numerous recent mobile and/or office numbers beseiged by dunning and marketing calls, apparently aimed at earlier holders (if even targeted at all).

Re: The FCC Has Fined Robocallers $208M, Collected $6,790

#165

Post by smsm42 »

tempsolution wrote: post #160

Calling is broken. I wished Apple would just add an option "Block all calls unless their number is in contacts". It's ridiculous that this option is only available in Do Not Disturb. It's like Apple was trying to somehow profit from robo-callers. It's time to put calls into the grave. The next step needs to be something like we have for websites. You need to get a personal SSL certificate to call and it will be bound…

> Block all calls unless their number is in contacts

I just implement that option manually - never pick up unless I know the number. Worst case, they'd leave a message. If your business is not worth bothering to leave a message, we probably din't need to talk anyway.

Re: The FCC Has Fined Robocallers $208M, Collected $6,790

#166

Post by BrentOzar »

tempsolution wrote: post #160

Calling is broken. I wished Apple would just add an option "Block all calls unless their number is in contacts". It's ridiculous that this option is only available in Do Not Disturb. It's like Apple was trying to somehow profit from robo-callers. It's time to put calls into the grave. The next step needs to be something like we have for websites. You need to get a personal SSL certificate to call and it will be bound…

> I wished Apple would just add an option "Block all calls unless their number is in contacts".

They added it in iOS 13 under Settings, Phone, Silence Unknown Callers. "Calls from unknown numbers will be silenced, sent to voicemail, and displayed on the Recents list. Incoming calls will continue to ring from people in your contacts, recent outgoing calls, and Siri Suggestions."

Re: The FCC Has Fined Robocallers $208M, Collected $6,790

#167

Post by tempsolution »

manigandham wrote: post #163
tempsolution wrote: post #160

Calling is broken. I wished Apple would just add an option "Block all calls unless their number is in contacts". It's ridiculous that this option is only available in Do Not Disturb. It's like Apple was trying to somehow profit from robo-callers. It's time to put calls into the grave. The next step needs to be something like we have for websites. You need to get a personal SSL certificate to call and it will be bound…

That option is in iOS 13, it's called "Silence Unknown Callers": https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207099

Hmm cool :). Not the ultimate solution, but this sounds useful! Thanks

Re: The FCC Has Fined Robocallers $208M, Collected $6,790

#168

Post by pontifier »

cactus2093 wrote: post #121
6gvONxR4sf7o wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tried it, and within a week I missed an important call. I was waiting by the phone, and it just never arrived. I realized too late that it had been silenced. It's very frustrating that we can't just get something like a spam filter, rather than a blanket "silence everything unknown."

Yeah part of the problem is there are tons of legitimate businesses out there that will do important things only over the phone, from obviously an unknown number, where if you miss the call it becomes a big hassle to get back in touch with them. Happens with banks and other financial institutions, doctors offices, deliveries and all kinds of other services. It would kind of solve the problem if a norm emerged that th…

I was working on a system like this years ago. I called it choicelist, and submitted a paper to the FTC spam forum.

It was a user configurable white list solution in which an entity can specify all the ways they may contact you (numbers, addresses, and optionally signing or encryption public keys), and you can white list the organization as a whole.

Messages purporting to come from one of these organizations that fails the self specified check can be safely ignored.

At the time, blockchains didn't exist, and the missing piece of the puzzle was a distributed database not controlled by any central organization.

Re: The FCC Has Fined Robocallers $208M, Collected $6,790

#169

Post by dredmorbius »

smabie wrote: post #141

While robocalls are annoying, what's the moral justification for making this illegal? If a person is allowed to call you, why can't a computer? Also the line is getting blurred recently, so it seems like a problematic distinction at this point in time.

Because abuse by a very few destroys trust in and value of the system to all:

[S]ince mid-2015, a consortium of engineers from phone carriers and others in the telecom industry have worked on a way to [stop call-spoofing], worried that spam phone calls could eventually endanger the whole system. “We’re getting to the point where nobody trusts the phone network,” says Jim McEachern, principal technologist at the Alliance for Telecommunications Industry Solutions (ATIS.) “When they stop trusting the phone network, they stop using it.”

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2018/05/how-to-stop-spam-rob...

Re: The FCC Has Fined Robocallers $208M, Collected $6,790

#170

Post by manigandham »

weberc2 wrote: post #99
nobodyandproud wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What technical limitation? There is nothing simpler, except that some very well-funded special interest groups never want to see this happen. When I was on a limited plan, the amount of spam messages and calls were virtually zero because the limit would run up and be charged against the caller (internationally). The month I switched to an unlimited, I started getting spammed. Now much of the spam is domestic, but I f…

Why should we artificially charge law abiding people for making a call? Why not disallow call spoofing? Why should we allow telecom fraud, especially when there are obvious technical solutions? And what well-funded SIGs are our to get your phone call tax plan?

Phone calls do cost money. Unlimited mobile calling plans are very recent, and many areas in the world are still by the minute and rather expensive.
Post reply on HN