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Oxford announces new degree in Computer Science and Philosophy

comlab.ox.ac.uk

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Re: Oxford announces new degree in Computer Science and Philosophy

#41

Post by crystalis »

jessriedel wrote: post #34
mayank wrote: post #17

Caveat: this is an anecdote, and your mileage may vary, but I think it illustrates a point of contention in the "two cultures". As a computer science major in the US, I once took a "philosophy of mind" course out of a genuine multi-faceted interest in AI. I was working on undergraduate machine learning research at the time, so I used to pore over the green Norvig/Stewart AI book like a religious text. Unfortunately,…

This major is undoubtedly related to the Future of Humanity Institute at Oxford. The academics associated with it take a very technical perspective, so I think you'd be satisfied. I believe Nick Bostrom is the main guy behind the FHI.

Nick Bostrom is indeed the director of the FHI. Anyone interested in the sort of perspective he has might want to read The Fable of the Dragon-Tyrant (http://www.nickbostrom.com/fable/dragon.html), the Simulation Argument (http://www.simulation-argument.com/), or the Anthropic Principle (http://www.anthropic-principle.com/).

The FHI has also "sponsored" www.overcomingbias.com, where Robin Hanson still posts and a lot of Eliezer Yudkowsky's sequences originally appeared.

Re: Oxford announces new degree in Computer Science and Philosophy

#42

Post by JonnieCache »

sp332 wrote: post #39
scott_s wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If physics was taught the same way philosophy is, we'd learn about the four elements before getting to Newtonian mechanics.

Every high school chemistry textbook I've seen actually works this way! It's horrible. The chapter starts with Dalton, works up through Rutherford and Bohr, and the last two or three I've seen ended there. Each section is presented as fact, and the kids are quizzed to make sure they know the material, before tearing it all down and teaching them a new bogus theory in the next section. Ugh.

My university somehow managed to teach TCP/IP using this methodology. I stopped going to that guy's sessions pretty quickly.

Re: Oxford announces new degree in Computer Science and Philosophy

#43

Post by samd »

mayank wrote: post #17

Caveat: this is an anecdote, and your mileage may vary, but I think it illustrates a point of contention in the "two cultures". As a computer science major in the US, I once took a "philosophy of mind" course out of a genuine multi-faceted interest in AI. I was working on undergraduate machine learning research at the time, so I used to pore over the green Norvig/Stewart AI book like a religious text. Unfortunately,…

My mileage did vary. Nobody in modern academic philosophy is a dualist.

Facts are nice, but philosophical debates tend to be about things that are fundamentally unprovable, unobservable, etc. I think a lot of people that come from the sciences and other "hard" disciplines are frustrated by how useless their facts are in solving these debates.

As someone with degrees in both a hard science and philosophy I'd say that philosophy is more useful to other disciplines than other disciplines are to philosophy.

Re: Oxford announces new degree in Computer Science and Philosophy

#45

Post by swannodette »

mayank wrote: post #17

Caveat: this is an anecdote, and your mileage may vary, but I think it illustrates a point of contention in the "two cultures". As a computer science major in the US, I once took a "philosophy of mind" course out of a genuine multi-faceted interest in AI. I was working on undergraduate machine learning research at the time, so I used to pore over the green Norvig/Stewart AI book like a religious text. Unfortunately,…

Your stance just reflects the depth of the divide - I refer you to C.P. Snow's lecture "Two Cultures", http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Two_Cultures

Re: Oxford announces new degree in Computer Science and Philosophy

#46

Post by rpbertp13 »

mayank wrote: post #17

Caveat: this is an anecdote, and your mileage may vary, but I think it illustrates a point of contention in the "two cultures". As a computer science major in the US, I once took a "philosophy of mind" course out of a genuine multi-faceted interest in AI. I was working on undergraduate machine learning research at the time, so I used to pore over the green Norvig/Stewart AI book like a religious text. Unfortunately,…

It's quite a shame that your philosophy of mind class didn't cover recent philosophical research where neuroscience and empirical psychology are taken seriously.

There is plenty of philosophical work that attempts to make sense of recent advances in brain science. A lot of it is centered around the 'hard problem of consciousness', or the question of why we have phenomenal experiences at all (and how these correlate to neural events). Although most serious proponents discard dualism, not all of them agree that phenomenal experiences can be reduced to physical phenomena (Dave Chalmers, Thomas Nagel).

To the scientifically biased the idea that physicalism isn't true is abhorrent, but contemporary philosophy, although not univocal, has serious arguments against it. If you find yourself dismissing this idea right off the bat out of scientific intuition I would urge you to read up a little bit on modern philosophy of mind.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_problem_of_consciousness http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophical_zombie http://consc.net/papers/ncc2.html

Re: Oxford announces new degree in Computer Science and Philosophy

#47

Post by ElliotH »

geoffw8 wrote: post #35
boredguy8 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's like answering, "How do I write a good book?" with "Start typing." Applying isn't the same thing as "getting in"--it's one small part. Where do you apply to? What matters in the application? Do you apply under the course or do you apply generically? Are "A-levels" a thing that matters? What are people looking for in applicants, or how do you find out?

Can't answer all your questions, but as a brit thats been on the brink of applying, I know that all applications go through a system called Ucas ( http://www.ucas.ac.uk/ ). I'm not sure if what we call 'Oxbridge', the big 2 (Oxford & Cambridge) handle their own applications, but I'm pretty sure Ucas is the place you need to start. I know it works (at least for UK students) on a points system, where you get points per…

I've gone through UCAS recently.

'UCAS Points' are only really counted for the lower-end of universities. Any university anywhere near Oxbridge in terms of reputation or entrance requirements gives offers based on A Level or International Baccalaureate or other qualifications, often followed by an interview.

For example my first and second choice universities offered AAA and AAB respectively.

Re: Oxford announces new degree in Computer Science and Philosophy

#48

Post by nervechannel »

etherealG wrote: post #29
rdouble wrote: post #19

I did a math and philosophy double major. The danger of a degree like this is that the stark reality of a programming job will seem unbearably boring in comparison to what you studied in school.

I would say you have the wrong type of programming job then. Some can be massively creative and require "philosophical" thought. Areas that come to mind are the ones in computer science which bleed over naturally into philosophy, e.g. AI.

Yes, and graduates with an interdisciplinary background and strong reasoning skills are more likely to get the interesting jobs than pure software engineers who know JUnit inside-out.

(Generalizing from myself with a sample size of one)

Re: Oxford announces new degree in Computer Science and Philosophy

#49

Post by corin_ »

rm445 wrote: post #36
boredguy8 wrote: post #3

How does an American get in to a program like this? Especially if, say hypothetically, they dropped out of school to work.

The teaching at Oxford (and Cambridge) is stellar and more Americans should consider it as an option. Getting onto an undergraduate programme is competitive but egalitarian: you need to show you are a top performer academically and then impress at an interview. Your competition at the application stage is (very roughly speaking) the smartest kid from every British school. Very few of them will get in; every course ha…

Overall a good answer, however there is something to add.

For British students, once you turn twenty-one you no longer have the same strict entry requirements, instead it's more a case of proving that you're the kind of person they want than showing what exams you've passed. (Though they're likely to ask you to do some studying before applying, to demonstrate that you're willing/able to learn.)

Most likely the same for international 'mature students' as well.

Re: Oxford announces new degree in Computer Science and Philosophy

#50

Post by ezyang »

I'm a computer scientist currently taking the History and Philosophy of Science course at Cambridge (an interesting combination that is one of the perks of being an exchange student) and wholeheartedly endorse this. Logic, with its philosophical roots, has had an enormous impact on Computer Science, and I believe Philosophy of Science and Philosophy of Mathematics have a lot to say about Computer Science. (AI is a kind of special child: I think you need some neuroscience added in as well.)
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