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Climate Change Response (Zero Carbon) Amendment Bill

parliament.nz

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Re: Climate Change Response (Zero Carbon) Amendment Bill

#31

Post by phs318u »

AmericanChopper wrote: post #18
Guest42 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have sources regarding the "left's irrational opposition to nuclear power"?

The left in New Zealand literally banned all forms of nuclear energy, going as far as prohibiting essentially all US Navy vessels from entering its waters just in case they had fissile material on board.

You may be unaware that this position was enshrined in legislation that has remained untouched in the last 3 decades including by conservative governments.

A couple of interesting facts: 1) the galvanising moment for this was the “Rainbow Warrior affair” in which French intelligence agents were caught after having sunk the Greenpeace vessel of the same name; 2) the nuclear-free zone act does not prohibit use of nuclear generation in NZ.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand_nuclear-free_zone

Re: Climate Change Response (Zero Carbon) Amendment Bill

#32

Post by CamouflagedKiwi »

AmericanChopper wrote: post #27
zknz wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a mainstream political position in NZ, not one of the "left".

It’s actually a very controversial position, implemented by a left wing government.

It's not a controversial stance within NZ these days, nor seen as particularly partisan there. Other countries (especially the US given what it meant for ANZUS) might find it more so.

Re: Climate Change Response (Zero Carbon) Amendment Bill

#33

Post by lostlogin »

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #9

> Ardern went on to say she absolutely believed climate change was the "biggest challenge of our time" and the "nuclear moment" for this generation. I find it ironic the prime minister is using “nuclear” as a pejorative when it was the left’s irrational opposition to nuclear power that resulted in much of the world's electricity being produced by fossil fuels. If we had embraced nuclear power 2 decades ago, we would…

> If we had embraced nuclear power 2 decades ago, we would have been in much better shape with respect to CO2 than we are in now.

How would New Zealand be better off with nuclear power? Keep in mind our environment. We have lots of water, plenty of sun and wind and some regions have earthquakes, including big ones in areas previously thought safe. Down here ‘we’ are doing just fine without it.

Re: Climate Change Response (Zero Carbon) Amendment Bill

#34

Post by phs318u »

crummy wrote: post #22
thundergolfer wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"anti-nuclear" mean anti the weapons or anti the power?

both; nuclear-anything is banned in NZ

Untrue. The nuclear-free zone act specifically does not preclude nuclear power generation. The fact that it hasn’t happened is no different from most other places where it hasn’t happened. A combination of fear, nimby, cost, regulation and easier options.

Re: Climate Change Response (Zero Carbon) Amendment Bill

#35

Post by crispinb »

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #9

> Ardern went on to say she absolutely believed climate change was the "biggest challenge of our time" and the "nuclear moment" for this generation. I find it ironic the prime minister is using “nuclear” as a pejorative when it was the left’s irrational opposition to nuclear power that resulted in much of the world's electricity being produced by fossil fuels. If we had embraced nuclear power 2 decades ago, we would…

> the left’s irrational opposition to nuclear power

This is nonsense. In nations where opposition to nuclear power is strong (like mine, Aus), there is not a left-right divide amongst the general population. People just don't want it, end of story, irrational or not.

There is a huge divide regarding electricity supply in general here - ie. the right wants coal, the left renewables. But neither want nuclear. There have been some pro-nuclear political elite lobbies, and there is a slight rightward slant there for sure, but this is entirely ignored by the general populace, left & right alike, that just doesn't want nuclear.

Re: Climate Change Response (Zero Carbon) Amendment Bill

#36

Post by dzhiurgis »

I'd like to know how come cheapest $40k USD ($62.3k NZD) Tesla in US, cost $75.9k or about 18% more in NZ?

And come the only "incentive" is "you don't pay road tax thru fuel" (while you still pay quite a bit thru yearly registration)?

How come there are 0 electric buses or heavy equipment in Auckland or whole NZ?

How come solar panels for your boat or lithium batteries for your bike (or electric bikes themselves) cost something like 4x than outside world?

And also where are the bike paths? Or even pedestrian paths in some places? If you live in North Shore and wanna get into city using your electric motorbike (that costs 2-4x per year to keep registered when compared to a car)? Tough look.

Ah yes scooters, nearly destroyed by likes of NZHerald with fear mongering articles...

Lastly this one is more to criticise business and I actually find them vile and atrocious - but where are all the Impossible Burgers?

Re: Climate Change Response (Zero Carbon) Amendment Bill

#39

Post by Taniwha »

jngreenlee wrote: post #6

Unfortunately it looks like just another bureaucracy with opportunity to appoint friends and supporters, but no real teeth or legal authority: "-no remedy or relief is available for failure to meet the 2050 target or an emissions budget, and the 2050 target and emissions budgets are not enforceable in a court of law, except that if the 2050 target or an emissions budget is not met, a court may make a declaration to t…

NZ regularly tops out as one of the least corrupt nations in the world.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index

I don't know what happens in your country, but we don't appoint our friends to public sinecures

Re: Climate Change Response (Zero Carbon) Amendment Bill

#40

Post by dzhiurgis »

lostlogin wrote: post #33
RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #9

> Ardern went on to say she absolutely believed climate change was the "biggest challenge of our time" and the "nuclear moment" for this generation. I find it ironic the prime minister is using “nuclear” as a pejorative when it was the left’s irrational opposition to nuclear power that resulted in much of the world's electricity being produced by fossil fuels. If we had embraced nuclear power 2 decades ago, we would…

> If we had embraced nuclear power 2 decades ago, we would have been in much better shape with respect to CO2 than we are in now. How would New Zealand be better off with nuclear power? Keep in mind our environment. We have lots of water, plenty of sun and wind and some regions have earthquakes, including big ones in areas previously thought safe. Down here ‘we’ are doing just fine without it.

While I don't really think NZ needs nucular, the solar and wind adoption here is appalling. Further, afaik water dams have pretty bad environment impact...
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